In another post, bestselling author Anne Rice told you her story – how, through historical research, she became convinced the facts support a real Jesus who rose from the dead. She explains how and why she left atheism to embrace hope.
Then, in 2010, she left the church. She said:
“For those who care, and I understand if you don’t: Today I quit being a Christian … It’s simply impossible for me to ‘belong’ to this quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous group. For ten years, I’ve tried. I’ve failed. I’m an outsider. My conscience will allow nothing else.
“My faith in Christ is central to my life. My conversion from a pessimistic atheist lost in a world I didn’t understand, to an optimistic believer in a universe created and sustained by a loving God is crucial to me. But following Christ does not mean following His followers. Christ is infinitely more important than Christianity and always will be, no matter what Christianity is, has been or might become.”
Many have asked my thoughts about Anne Rice’s departure from the Catholic Church. Let me tell you my own story of struggling with quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious church people.
When I was 12, my mom went “bipolar.” Manic depressive with mild schizophrenia.
Except that for a year and a half, nobody knew that’s what was wrong with her. We just knew she was impossible to live with.
The fights, the arguments and contention would start as soon as I got home from school every day and stretch past bedtime.
Our entire family was bedlam for a year and a half.
Mom would swing from being your best friend to your worst enemy at the slightest provocation. I’d come home from school and find she’d tossed boxes of my stuff in the garbage. She’d say embarrassing things to my friends.
She insisted dad wasn’t really her husband. She said he was a man who looked just like Bob and she was sentenced to live with him until the ‘real’ Bob came back. When he came home from work she would hurl accusations at him. My brother and sister and I would complain bitterly to him about how she was treating us.
It was almost impossible to not get sucked into some kind of conflict every day. Home was the most dangerous place a kid could be.
My dad was taking her to doctors and counselors but nobody seemed to be able to arrive at any conclusion. Meanwhile, people watched us with a judgmental eye.
My dad was an associate pastor at a very large church in Nebraska, 2000+ members. Dad started getting heat from his boss, the senior pastor, Mr. G, who didn’t like the fact that one of the pastors’ wives was “out of line.”
Mr. G quoted the scripture that says a pastor should be in control of his family and told dad if he didn’t straighten out mom’s problem, he might have to leave.
Dad pursued answers and eventually got mom to a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist diagnosed her with a chemical imbalance and bipolar disorder.
That trip to the psychiatrist was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Psychiatrists and psychologists, in Mr. G’s opinion, were the new high priests of a secular order that would dismiss all human ills as curable illnesses. Psychiatrists didn’t have the courage to call evil by its real names – SIN and DISOBEDIENCE. They existed to give people like my mom an alibi. Mr. G declared Mom insubordinate and rebellious.
Literally on the same day the diagnosis came back, Mr. G and Mr. J, the pastors of our church, visited our house to deliver the news. We all sat in the living room as they announced, “We’ve asked your father to resign from his responsibilities. He’s no longer qualified to be a pastor.”
I listened without much comment. I was 13. My older sister, however, was livid. At 18 she’d formed definite opinions about what had transpired. She started sobbing and retorted angrily to Mr. J: “If people knew what YOUR daughter does when she’s out at night, they’d be forcing you to resign too.”
Mr. J said, “We’re not here to talk about me or my family today, Robin. We’re here to talk about you.”
Earlier that day, dad had been brought before the Board of Elders to hear their final verdict. One by one, they agreed with Mr. G: “Bob, you’re not in control of your family. We’re sorry, you have to step down.” Mr. G demoted dad and announced to 2,000 people the following Sunday that dad had “resigned” so he could “attend to problems with Betty and the family.”
The next months were painful indeed. Few knew the real story. Some gathered around us. Most only knew something disgraceful had happened though and kept their distance. We felt like pariahs.
Dad couldn’t hang with his same friends anymore. He wasn’t invited to lunch at work. They shut him out of staff meetings. They hadn’t cut his pay, but he did lose a tax deduction. Less money to go around.
A couple months later I got into a fist fight at school. Came home with two black eyes. Bad report cards and complaints from teachers. All this added to the mounting case against dad.
He would come home from work every night and sit on the couch and sob. Mom told him it was all his fault for being such a cruel tyrant.
Dad followed through with the psychiatrist’s advice to get her on a prescription drug. Literally within a few days, mom transformed from defiant and combative to quiet and cooperative. The bizarre behavior stopped completely. Not only that, she went from being angry and defensive to feeling deep remorse about her erratic behavior.
Soon it became clear that Mr. G torpedoed dad simply because mom had a medical problem – a chemical imbalance – and that mom’s behavior wasn’t “sin” or “rebellion.” It was a well-understood mental illness. She couldn’t help herself.
Dad was hurt and humiliated and felt abandoned. He desperately wanted to bail. A lot of people told him he should quit his job, especially our relatives who understood the scope of the situation.
Dad thought about pulling up stakes, moving elsewhere. He decided to stick it out. To argue his case and vindicate himself.
Few men had the balls to stand up to Mr. G, but dad did. As mom’s condition improved, he said, “Mr. G, you made a wrong judgment and you need to apologize to my wife.”
Furthermore dad made Mr. G write her a letter of reconciliation, because by this time mom had become terrified of Mr. G. He had, after all, the ability to singlehandedly destroy dad’s career.
Nine months after dad had been demoted, he was reinstated.
Two weeks later dad was diagnosed with cancer.
Had dad cut and run, he would’ve been in a newcomer in some new environment, maybe even starting over in a brand new city, surrounded by strangers.
But since he’d stuck it out and vindicated himself, we were surrounded by a faith community that lent us help with dinners and financial support and prayers and encouragement.
Dad had major surgery. He was cancer free for a year and a half, then it came back. Treatments were unsuccessful, and as it became clear that he wasn’t going to make it, Mr. G secretly mailed a letter to everyone else at church. He explained how this summer might be Bob’s last and it would be really nice to raise some money, so Bob can take a trip to the West Coast.
$10,000 came in. In 1986 that was enough to not only take dad to California, a place he’d always longed to visit, but it was enough to get all of us to Alaska and Hawaii too. Dad experienced a 5 week “last hurrah” with his wife and kids that July.
That October, he died. I was 17.
I can’t tell you how many things I’ve wanted to quit, and didn’t, because dad wouldn’t throw in the towel and walk away from a bunch of quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous people.
And say what you want about ’em, when you’re in the oncology ward with terminal cancer, those are the same people that will probably be with you as you pass from here to the other side.
They will still have their faults and you will have yours, but… blood is thicker than water.
A faith community can become just as close and even closer than your biological family. It’s why they can hurt you so easily.
But there’s no such thing as a real community, or even a real relationship, that isn’t vulnerable. Painfully so sometimes. During our special vacation to California, dad told me that getting rejected and blamed for a mess he had no control of had been worse than dying of cancer was now.
Peter asked Jesus, how many times should I forgive my brother? Seven times?
Jesus said, “Seventy times seven. That’s how many times you should forgive.”
What do you forgive people for, anyway??
For being quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous. For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6:14-15.
After the potluck dinners have ended and people start throwing chairs at each other, it’s so easy to pull the plug and run. So many marriages don’t work out, it’s so easy to just live with someone and see how things turn out.
It IS easier.
It’s easier at first.
But when a series of relationships fail, they rip your heart to shreds just as much whether you were married or not. It just seemed like not ‘committing’ yourself lessened the risk. If your “common law wife” leaves you after 10 years, how is that any less painful than if your legally married wife leaves you? Just because it’s ‘unofficial’ doesn’t make it less perilous.
I’ve had to make multiple passes of forgiveness about Mr. G. A few years later when more fiascoes erupted, I had to let go again.
A few years after that, it occurred to me that my dad might not have even gotten cancer in the first place had he not endured two years in such a toxic, unsupportive, humiliating environment. That’s speculation, but still I had even more forgiveness I had to do.
A year ago I realized I needed to confront yet another layer of unforgiveness within myself. I had made a conscious choice to let go of the past, when I suddenly felt God saying to me, “The Father’s Heart is going to be poured out over Mr. G and his church.”
The day you forgive anther person is the day new blessings get released into their life. The day you forgive another person is the day you stop being a victim of whatever they did to you.
Dear Anne Rice, I greatly esteem your writing and your scholarship. I commend you for your adroit case for the historical Jesus. I appeal to you as a brother and member of the imperfect body of Christ, that to exit and publicly denounce them is to embrace quarreling… hostility… and public disputes.
From an individual view it’s all justified. But isolation makes islands of all of us. When we who were mistreated gather together in opposition to those who did us wrong, we inevitably become like those whom we judge.
A few years ago I visited an old college buddy in Washington DC. He was an exquisitely smart, seminary educated man who’d been a pastor in a Protestant evangelical church. He’d recently converted from Protestant to Eastern Orthodox.
Eastern Orthodox??? Most Americans don’t even know what that is.
I was dying to hear his explanation. “I don’t know what Peter’s going to tell me, but it’s sure gonna be interesting.”
I wasn’t disappointed. We sat up late three nights in a row exploring his decision. I don’t have time for the whole story now, but one of the points he made was this: “Protestants have ‘splitting off’ in their very DNA. As soon as they disagree, they leave First Baptist Church to go start Second Baptist Church. Then some of those people split off and form Third Baptist Church and on and on it goes.
“Catholics and Orthodox people don’t automatically do that. They prize unity. I have a bishop over me and he’s like a father to me and my wife. We live in community and in covenant together. He’s responsible to look out for us and we choose to be in a trusting mutual relationship.”
Whether you’re Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox… or if you’re on the outside looking in… I want to encourage you: living the nomad life is less demanding in the short term but lonelier in the long term.
As you make forgiveness a way of life, when you choose to live in community, you earn a kind of compound interest of grace. Months or years do not always reveal the fruit of that. It grows evident over decades. Community is the only place where you truly learn to forgive and learn to love.
The only way we exorcise our demons – both figuratively and literally – is in committed relationships with other people. Those around us are mirrors. They show us our faults, and we theirs. As we bathe those faults in mercy and forgiveness we become the people we aspire to be.
Perry Marshall
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Where are all of the spiritually born again from above brothers and sisters in Jesus?
“Caution,caution,caution”,,, as written somewhere in an earlier post, makes many REAL points.
JESUS IS THE ANSWER,,, and HIS ANSWER IS LOVE….in UNITY of Spirit.
Ann Rice, although proclaiming JESUS,,, is CARNAL.
Even so,,, His mercy and grace IS sufficient!!! Amen…Just as the Baptists believe…Once SAVED, always saved…?
Perry, after hearing your DNA argument, you have always been a reference point in allowing academia to VALIDATE our AWESOME Father!!! DNA is HIS language of LIFE & LOVE!!! Amen!
The WORD tells us we are within a TREMENDOUS Spiritual Battle, and those who are STRONG in faith and love and wisdom ARE targets of satan and his minions and evil spirits…
The ADVERSARY ALWAYS attacks the spirit through the blood. The weaker members become tools of satan, for he is the WOLF in a sheep’s clothing,,, seeking to devour the weaker thans, which in turns shakes the very foundations of a physical family.
Watch this…YOU are one who should provide great dialogue on what is to follow…Please make sure we have a validated correspondence over this revelation.
Ye must be born again.
Twice,,, once from the water of the womb, and AGAIN in His Holy Spirit.
The Spirit OPPOSES the flesh.
Skin for skin,,, man will give up ALL to preserve his own flesh.
Yet, we are told of UNITY IN SPIRIT.
NOW,,, your mom…
was (is) influenced by a carnally driven battle of THE MIND.
The mind functions according to the chemical reactions and levels of aminos and such within.
“The psychiatrist diagnosed her with a chemical imbalance and bipolar disorder.”
The Holy Spirit is the chemical cure,,, but it requires FAITH, and TRUE LOVE,,, to COMPLETELY PLACE JESUS FIRST,, just as HE told as being THE GREATEST OF ALL commandments.
FLESH -vs- SPIRIT
SELF -vs- HIM
BODY -vs- SPIRIT
DISARRAY -vs- UNITY
“MY” Family -vs- HIS Family
Self Preservation -vs- Self Crucifixion
A chemical warfare of the mind, BASED on ONE’S FAITH…Faith as a whole of who, what, and where we are.
Because much has been revealed {learned}, we more than ever now “correct” imbalance with meds, rather than faith, wisdom, deliverance and TRUTH.
OXYTOCIN -vs- DMT(N,N-Dimethyltryptamine)
FLESH -vs- SPIRIT
HERE -vs- THERE
Earth -vs- Heaven
Carnal -vs- Quickened
The choice to battle within the mind, influenced by both flesh and spirit…Ye must be born again…Supernatural…
ONLY in His Spirit and His TRUTH do we have that walk in unity…There is a condition here.
The beginning of our conscience STEADFAST in HIM, HIS LOVE, HIS WORD…The ONLY WAY
Jesus qouted Psalms 22 when crying out “God,,,”…Fulfilling prophecy,,, for JESUS always called Him FATHER!!!
We have to SELL OUT in TRUTH!!! And Woe to a woman in those days who haveth no covering. Who WAS and IS deceived in the beginning? BUT,,, who was the deceiver REALLY going after?
OXYTOCIN -vs- DMT controlled by FREE WILL, via FAITH…
ONLY BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT can our growing FAITH withstand,,, HENCE the imperative need for His SPIRITUAL ARMOR!!!
As we grow in HIS TRUTH, the LIAR immediately kicks the back of our knees and attempts to dismantle our faith…A DOUBTER.
Pineal -vs- Pituitary
Physiological -vs- FAITH in TRUTH
The love hormone oxytocin, known to be plentiful in lactating women and released by men and women during orgasm.
These findings underscore that “oxytocin is not a love hormone; its effects vary in different people,” remarks psychologist Greg Norman of Ohio State University in Columbus.
Norman and his colleagues have found that oxytocin stimulates the heart to beat more in sync with the breathing cycle in people with healthy social lives, but not in people who report constant loneliness. (you will be hated for My names sake)
Other researchers have recently reported that oxytocin stimulates greater trust of members of one’s own ethnic group and greater suspicion of other ethnicities. (provoking racism)
When DMT is inhaled, depending on the dose, its subjective effects can range from short-lived milder psychedelic states to powerful immersive experiences, which include a total loss of connection to conventional reality, which may be so extreme that it becomes ineffable. (larger than life)
Author Terence McKenna has used DMT and feels that, “Right here and now, one quanta away, there is raging a universe of active intelligence that is transhuman, hyperdimensional, and extremely alien… What is driving religious feeling today is a wish for contact with this other universe.” The aliens seen while using DMT present themselves “with information that is not drawn from the personal history of the individual.”
Is it possible that that some of our human ancestors produced more DMT than we do today? For example, many of the ancient Bible stories describe prophets with DMT-like experiences. (See my book The Paradox of God.) Consider as one example (Isaiah 6):
Above him were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. And they were calling to one another:
“Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory.”
At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook and the temple was filled with smoke.
These sorts of ecstatic singing and repetitive exaltations remind me of subjects who took DMT and heard: “Now do you see? Now do you see?” along with singing voices. (These cases are described in Rick Strassman’s book DMT: The Spirit Molecule.)
When I asked Rick Strassman, M.D., author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule, about my theory, he responded: I’m not familiar with a specific theory that we made more DMT in the old days than now. But, are you familiar with Jaynes’ idea of the bicameral mind–that people routinely hallucinated until the connections between our hemispheres got evolved out for whatever reason? I don’t think hemispheric connections would support his idea as much as might higher levels of endogenous DMT. If indeed we made more DMT in the past, this may have to do with the increase in artificial light that has come upon us in the last 1000 years or so.
ARTIFICIAL LIGHT…
SYNTHESIZED CHEMICALS…
FLOURIDE in the DRINKING WATER…
…Causes calcification of the Pineal Gland in the teen years…
…The Pineal Gland is situated in depths of the brain, tucked between two hemispheres,,, being bright RED in color.
The LORD speaks of hardened hearts…Unable to RECEIVE the Spirit of GOD.
Too busy getting an Oytocin fix by chasing one’s mate.
Obsessed with chasing the womb around…How does it go,,, we spend all our lives attempting to climb back into our mother’s womb…
And the mothers’ “protecting” their children right into hell.
And Jezebel usurping her King’s authority by frauding Naboth to death, to steal his vineyard for her “own” carnal family.
FLESH vs SPIRIT
OXYTOCIN vs DMT
FAITH IS WHAT STIRS OUR FATHER
call NO Earthly man your FATHER…The Spirit of adoption, we cry ABBA Father!!!
JESUS is the answer!
Michael Johnson
You might like my article about miracles I’ve had experience with: http://www.coffeehousetheology.com/miracles/
Definitely the truth cuts like a 2 edged sword on all matters, and in all facets of life. However, with more knowledge comes more discernment. Not every thought process triggered by DMT is truth. Maybe a different perspective of life, but not complete answers to difficult questions. I would argue that a synthetic drug may bring more knowledge, but not discernment. There are athiests who have used DMT and are still athiests. The situation derived from this encounter with spiritual matters is… “the more you know, the more you realize that you don’t know”. There won’t be an advantage to those who know more, only a dissadvantage because more will be required of them. So in the end… seek and you shall find, but when you find, be ready for more responsibility and unanswered questions.
Exactly! And, as it says in I Cor. 13:2 “And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” ESV Apparently, there is a formula here, of sorts, and while all ingredients are needed, knowledge is NOT the key ingredient. Jesus gave us the key ingredients, another time, in Matthew 22: 34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” I REPEAT the scripture: 40: “On these two commandment DEPEND all the Law and the Prophets.”
It should be so simple. Do unto others! I try my hardest not to judge others because I KNOW how deficient I am. To be loved, we must first love. It’s not easy, but it’s possible. In fact, it’s time consuming enough that we shouldn’t have so much time to cause all this trouble within our mutual belief, appreciation for and love of Christ Jesus who died for us.
It’s time to drop the incidentals and come together!!!
You are so on target, we have to stop arguing about who’s right and who’s wrong and live the Way. Matthew 25 quotes Jesus as detailing some specifics, like feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, welcoming the stranger, visiting the sick and imprisoned. Not complicated at all, but tiring sometimes. Ask any parent.
To: John Kuhn
Thank you so much for responding to my contribution to this very significant subject matter. And yes, I was thinking of parenting when I wrote it, you know, we as God’s children compared to how we might want to ‘learn’ to feel towards Ann Rice, et. al. Until we have children, it is so easy to say how to parent because the emotional connection is not well enough understood. For instance, I know a man who encouraged his best friend (a Christian) to have his stepchild turned into the police for something that could have been easily dealt with at home, causing positive change, bonding and a lasting marriage. The police could have been a second, third our fourth option. Remember I’m talking legalism here. The police pulled this 14 year old child out of class to deal with the situation and then chastised the stepfather for wasting their time on a family matter that he had not even tried to use his ‘fatherly’ skills on at any level. The funny thing is, the man who gave the original advice, years later, apologized. He had three sons. Need I say more?
I must say that I am appalled that very few on this board have responded to the simple message of Christ’s love. I see so much ‘blowing in the wind’ and it scares me off from the church even more.
When I was four 1/2 years old my hillbilly partying parents had a party. My bedroom was upstairs. I was awakened during the night by a drunk man (it was very dark) who proceeded to molest me. Mainly, I remember his stubby short fingers and his breath. The next morning, I went down to the basement, grabbed a dirty dress from the laundry pile, combed my red, bowl cut hair and walked bare foot to the church (Winchester, ID (pop. probably 300) and sneeked into the singing part of the service. I sat by a safe looking older lady with gray hair. After a couple of minutes she looked down at me and told me my knees were dirty, and where were my shoes. My little self heard her tell me I was dirty. I went there, 4 1/2 years old, to tell Jesus what that man did so He could help me. But, I left that church feeling dirty and ashamed. This has stayed with me for a lifetime, even though I know in my head that Jesus does NOT feel that way about me. His church still treats me that way.
All the knowledge, all the opinions being spouted are worthless without the love of Jesus Christ who saves.
Kathryn:
I had a girlfriend long ago who broke up with me the moment I told her I loved her. I found out many years later that she had been repeatedly raped by her own father as a child, and that her jealous mother blamed HER for it (“You must have seduced him, you dirty girl!”). She told me that she would lose respect for me if we stayed together, because she was dirty and unworthy of me. I continued pursuing her for years, to no avail. Finally, I gave up. One evening several months later I was walking down a city street, and I kept seeing people wearing T-shirts that said “Love never fails” . That same night, I also heard that phrase in the lyrics of a song on the radio, and repeatedly in overheard conversations between strangers. The next morning I had a horrible nightmare. My girl had cut her wrists and was bleeding to death. Somehow, I knew that it was more than just a dream. In my dream I was holding her and crying. And I could smell the stench of the devil. When I woke up I was still crying — and suddenly I knew the devil is real, and that Christianity is true. That was the day of I accepted Jesus. I kept sending letters to my girl over the next couple of years, with God’s encouragement (“love her, support her, stand by her!”) I found out that she really had attempted suicide, on the very day and at the same time I had the dream. She tried to kill herself because she thought she was worthless and nobody loved her. But she sensed my presence, she knew I was crying for her, so she changed her mind at the last minute and didn’t want to die anymore. I believe that’s why God stopped the bleeding that day. I kept sending her letters telling her how much Jesus loves her (she lives in Japan). A couple of years after her suicide attempt, she accepted Jesus herself, although Christians are very uncommon in Japan. She ended up marrying someone else, to my sorrow. But that’s OK — she is alive, and she’s going to heaven, so I was willing to give her up even though it HURT. The day of the dream was the worst day of my life emotionally – but my soul was saved that day, and my girl’s life was saved. And eventually her soul was saved too. That’s how God can use bad things for good purposes — and that’s how God can communicate with us outside of the Bible. Truly, love never fails.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ2jDUGcOsk
You will never walk alone.
Why is it that the people who have suffered the most understand love the best? I mean you,Kathryn. For most of the rest, Christianity seems to be a subject of academic study, or simply a social and cultural tradition. Like a dancer who knows all the moves but has no rhythm, because he can’t hear the music.
I just saw this. I had a heart attack and have been healing. My favorite quote is: “He who hears not the music thinks the dancer mad.” What you said is beautiful. I hope you get this… Kathryne
She was a very blessed person to have one such as you praying for her and keeping her in your thoughts all those years. I hope she knows some day that you are her angel on earth…
Kathryne
Posts like Micheal Johnson’s are a clear example of why people are so sick of the church. The whole article is so clouded by Christian language, or ‘Christianese’ newspeak as is sometimes known, that it sounds like every sentence is an attempt by Mr.Johnson at showing how spiritually knowledgeable he is. Church people should come out of their cultural shell for awhile and see how crazy this kind of language sounds. And this comes from a professing Christian
Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. (Luke 6:22)
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. (Colossians 3:12-13)
Faith is simple, keep believe in Him, you never walk alone, do all the good you can–not from what you’re abundant with but from what you’re lack of, don’t salvage for you’re own sake but for the sake of others and always be grateful for whatever good or bad happening to you.
Being raise among those on good faith, those whom always believe that God is all but evil, those of spiritual healer, and have experienced miracle myself make me not going to ever doubt of Jesus salvation. And I’m following His lead, “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?” (2 Corinthians 13:5).
One thing we must always be aware of is that our illness, the suffering we endure during our life here on earth is a way to repent, a way of shortening our stay later in purgatory. Thus, suffering is something we also have to rejoice and be grateful for. Being a Christian is never about live happily ever after on earth. It’s a constant battle through suffering, not just of our own illness but also from those differ from us whatever the kind of differences there are. 1 Peter 4:1 “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;”
And following Jesus is “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.” (Matthew16:24) “And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake.” (Luke 21:16-17). You see, it’s really will never be easy to follow Him. But then, “With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.” (Efesus 4:1-7).
And then there’s another thing we shall never forget to do, in the last supper of Christ, “And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.” (Luke 22:19-20). This practice must never be abandoned, and the bread and the wine to be used have to be sanctified first, not just any bread or wine. And, then, not any person can lead such practice, but those who have sanctified oneself in such a way of self sacrificing to be worthy of His blessing. Here is, Church is not just any place. The men may do wrong, forgive them. And stay be as a child.
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. (Romans 8:26)
Each and everyone is different and that is part of the cross we have to carry. There are times when we may carry the cross together, but then there are also times when we must carry the cross alone.
But in all of these, we strive to fail because of our heart hardness (see Matthew 19–not so much related, but the essence is there).
2 Corinthians 1:8-9 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life: But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.
I loved the observation of your buddy from Washington D.C. ” Protestants have “splitting off” in their DNA.I laughed out loud. I wonder if anyone has ever counted just how many Protestant denominations there are. Lets do NOT ever lose our sense of humour. I’m a Canadian Anglican and our diocese has recently lost some parts of congregations due to the “homophobia/homosexual” situation in Anglicanism worldwide. I attend Sunday Services at a church that I love but it is so outdated that it could be mistaken for the church I attended 79 years ago. I love the ritual and need the euacharist so I am at home. I also enjoy Contemplative or Centering prayer held in other churches in the area. I am sort of wondering why Perry Marshall and Anne Rice never mention the advanced thinking of such teacher/authors as Father Thomas Keating, Cynthia Bourgeault, Karen King, Elaine Pagels,Lynn & Ward Baumann, Richard Rohr — and on and on as your friend might say. Theirs is a new look at Christianity as originally taught by Jesus and how there is a possibility that a great deal of that teaching was misrepresented or mistaught (is that a word ?) over the millenia. Things such as meditation, and belief in the “heart” being more than just a pump and that we all (everyone in the world) are God’s people are not new but were practiced in Jesus time,by him.
Thanks for your website. Dave Brown
One need not read Elaine Pagels to find out what early Christianity was like; in fact I think you’ll get a rather skewed perspective from her. One can read the early church fathers instead and get the straight scoop. I recommend “Faith of the Early Fathers volume 1” by Jurgens. Starts with Polycarp at 80AD and moves on from there. You’ll get a very accurate picture of what they believed.
According to different sources, there are between 20,000 to 30,000 different Protestant denomniations.
Three cheers for you!! What a pleasant breeze of thought you bring to this discussion. My husband thanks you for slowing down my wonder (freely expressed) about some of the closed and firmly locked minds in the discussion. In fact he keeps reminding me that I’m the person who believes that everyone needs to find their own spirituality. Fortunately we’ve been married forever (47 years)and we are used to encouraging each others interests.
Take Care, Bev
Christianity, for me, is a false religion. It is NOT the faith Yeshua(Jesus) brought to one group of the lost sheep of Israel. It’s no wonder people like Ms. Rice left the church she was affiliated with.
In short Christianity has become a synchristic form of paganism, Sunday as the Sabbath is rooted in paganism and so are the Christian holidays (Christmas and Easter, etc.).
My advice to people is to leave this false religion, get a Bible and let God reveal Himself to you through the Scripture, trust on Yeshua and be guided by the Holy Spirit.
Beautiful story, Perry, and great conclusions. Thanks for sharing it.
funny how only a year or so ago, this site was lampooning ann rice as a converted christian. now she’s had a chance to look at your cult, and she quickly leaves. food for thought.
Forgive them, yes, but you didn’t see Jesus palling around with Pharisees. “‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues…” The real church is not an organization or an institution.
Thank you for sharing about your dad’s faithfulness and the aftermath that you experienced. How encouraging to me and others!
I think that life has two edges – there is the fundamental truth that people disappoint us, do us wrong and even those who have faith in Christ can do things they ought not to do. Scripture says that we need to ‘take up our cross daily’ and that sometimes those who make life most difficult are those closest to us. Sad, but true. God gives us strength if we follow him. “If we follow him and follow him to the end.” If we stay…
Then, I think there is another side to ‘the coin’ – scripture says in Romans that the whole creation is in turmoil. It says that creation is waiting for the ‘revealing of the sons of God’. I believe that God is going to raise up a new people who he will show how to apply his precepts and principles among each other. Yes, as believers, we ARE part ‘the church’. We do not, however, share agreed upon Standards, Principles, Practices and Guidelines on how to conduct ourselves with each other. Because of this, many communities within the Kingdom are weak and ineffective. I believe that God is raising a standard. It will start small, as God often does… with a few who stand ‘against the tide’. But, I think that from that few, an entire nation can grow. Will grow. The people who call God their God should not be the tail. We should be the head, showing the way. Why, because He gives us ALL of the things that we need for life. We need to be able to live these things out among ourselves and hold them out to a world that is desperate.
I hope that Anne and others find a place of true Common Unity, community in Christ. There is nothing on earth like it. And, of course because the Common Unity Christ offers in His Kingdom, is like he said: “My kingdom is not of this world.” His Kingdom is within us – He is raising a people who can live out the Kingdom among ourselves… to His glory. And, to offer hope for people who are lost, disconnected and unloved.
Perry,
I have been following the story of Ann Rice and her rejoining the RC church etc with interest. I observe that most of the bloggers think that Catholic doctrine is the only genuine one to follow and Ann Rice’s conversion from atheism proves it. I doubt this hypothesis. In my earlier blog too I had expressed the view that what is valid for Ann may not be relevant to all. In India where I live Christians are viewed with a certain degree of suspicion due to this principle of infallibility of Christian doctrine. Christians do not deserve this as they have done fantastic work in the field of education and medical and related fields in India. But this should have attracted better appreciation if missionaries from foreign countries had understood one of the basic pillars of Indian thought.That is. Do your duty without expecting any returns. Jesus also said that it is necessary to help others as duty. I think the two principles are not far off from each other. If Ann had given these twin principles the consideration they deserve the blog would not have deteriorated to assertion of personal faith.
George.
“To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you. This is hard. It is perhaps not so hard to forgive a single great injury. But to forgive the incessant provocations of daily life… how can we do it? Only, I think, by remembering where we stand, by meaning our words when we say in our prayers each night ‘forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us.’ We are offered forgiveness on no other terms. To refuse it is to refuse God’s mercy for ourselves. There is no hint of exceptions and God means what He says.” -C.S. Lewis
Dear Mr Perry,
I have had a truck load of your messages, but this one is so truthful and amazing. I do not understand why Christians hate each other (especially Protestants). As you have rightly analyzed they (Protestants) have splinter DNA in them. They even painted the Pope as the Ante Christ who came to destroy the world, where as Pope is one of the few Light Houses existing today in moral realm with his powerful stand on Abortion, gay /lesbian ism etc, whereas so called splinter groups, independent Churches and auxiliary churches and self made Bishops have compromised on the basic tenets of Christian faith. They consciously cause injuries to Christ’s body. Let all Christians Unite, shed the hatred and work for the bringing the Kingdom of God in earth.
Perry, I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying here. Are you suggesting we stay in a toxic community? A marriage is vastly different than a religious community. I would make heroic efforts to save a marriage, but I’ve been in religious community where it just makes no sense to stay. And I agree with you: a toxic-imbalanced life may cause cancer.
There are over 30,000 Christian sub-denominations on the planet. That’s 30,000 reasons for concern over what we call “Christianity.” Like Anne Rice, I long for the day when Christ followers revolutionize the notion of “church” from 30,000 inbred, myopic, institutionalized tribes to a global notion of humanity saturated in the abiding mercy and embrace of the cross.
I think successive virtual-global generations will increasingly live into a “universal orthodoxy” that redefines spiritual unity not as an intellectual systematic (which leads to endless structural division), but as transcendent indifference to religious identity itself (identity not defined by “insiders” and “outsiders”), rejecting the habitual ease of tribal approval while framing the “only way” of Jesus by love and embrace of all humanity, including our enemies.
John La, please see my post of today, February 8, complementing you on your insightful message.
Please Ladies and Gentlemen, read carefully these verses:
1Cor 11,18 For, in the first place, when you assemble as a church, I hear that there are DIVISIONS among you
1Cor 3,3 for you are still of the flesh. For while there is JEAULOUSY and STRIFE among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving like ordinary men?
Jm 4,1 What causes WARS, and what causes FIGHTINGS among you? Is it not your passions that are at WAR in your members?
2Cor 12,20 For I fear that perhaps I may come and find you not what I wish, and that you may find me not what you wish; that perhaps there may be QUARRELLING, JEALOUSY, ANGER, SELFISHNESS, SLANDER, GOSSIP, CONCEIT, and DISORDER.
Mt 24,10 And then many [christians] will fall away, and BETRAY ONE ANOTHER, and HATE ONE ANOTHER.
How we can see, first century’s church was a group of people filled of DIVISIONS, JEALOUSY, FIGHTS, WARS.
Jesus say last century church will be a group of people filled of DIVISIONS, JEALOUSY, FIGHTS, WARS.
I know is paradoxically, but if we’ll have today a perfect chuch, will be the proof Bible is false and Jesus do a mistake. Church’s sins fulfill Bible claims.
Mt 24,6 And you will hear of WARS and RUMORS OF WARS
Therefore if we today have a world of perfect peace, this will be demonstration Bible is false.
Divisions in church, wars in world demonstrate foreknowledge of Jesus and therefore his DIVINITY. Hypothetically perfect unity in church and peace in world, demonstrate Jesus is a false prophet.
Bible don’t say princess of this world is kind and polite Pollyanna, Bible say prince of this world is Satan, fierce and full of hate. Please, get up beloved reader, you are not more an ingenuous child, cast away illusions from your life… your spiritual life will improve.
Stefano
nayax79@yahoo.it
Responding to Dennis Braun’s assertion that the church is the bride of Christ. Paul said he espoused the Corinthian church “as a chaste virgin to Christ,” 2Cor 11:2. But Christ’s wedding parables are for the end-time when suddenly wise and foolish are sorted and those who aren’t ready will not be included (Matt 25:6-12)
God took Israel out of a life and death calamity in Egypt to a covenant (marriage) relationship at Sinai and later said, “I am married to you,” Jer 3:14. “ALL those things happened for types…ends of the world,” 1Cor 10:1,11.
We are not seeing the calamity that is impending for this country
but God has given a “heads up” for the wise who should be lighting their lamps, or as another wedding parable shows, have “lights burning,” Luke 12:35,36. (The “knock” is an earthquake such as destroyed the ancient church of Laodicea–it’s the only other place Christ “knocks” and the Bible interprets itself. The Hebrew word for “knock” is daphaq and it includes a severe meaning as in Judges 19:22. If this is of any interest, please visit theBridegroomComes.com
Responding to Yohan Dahal’s Comment:
Yes, Anne Rice went to the Catholic Institution and no one ever told her she was not with Christians!
There are many sincere Christians in the Catholic Church, probably more than any other church, but sadly that church institution does fit the description of the harlot (unfaithful) in Revelation 17 that rides the beast of New World Order when the pope will be in charge of religion worldwide from Jerusalem where he will move as suggested by the last verse of Daniel 11, “planting the tabernacle of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain” (Zion)
God will sort those who are sincere from those who are not real Christians by their willingness to take a stand for the truth in the time ahead when there are life and death issues as in the book of Daniel that Christ told us to understand for end-times, Matt 24:15.
Richard
http://catholic2.netfirms.com/
Responding to John La saying:
I long for the day when Christ followers revolutionize the notion of “church” from 30,000 inbred, myopic, institutionalized tribes to a global notion of humanity…
We all see a problem, but God’s wisdom is above ours and we need to see His plan will not involve a worldwide re-design of the church into anything “global.”
Christ said, “Broad is the way that leads to destruction” Matt 7:13. Early Americans held that the 1st beast in Revelation 13 was an amalgamation of the beasts from Daniel 7 and that the Catholic Church that survived the other empires was an amalgamation of pagan customs and practices. It had the “deadly wound” of the Protestant Reformation (Rev 13:3) and its wound has healed as few protest it now, and the world wonders after it as every living US president bowed before the casket of a dead pope, and New World Order will be the image beast of Old World Order shown also in Revelation 13, but it will involve false worship and the most severe warning in the Bible is against accepting control by global government (Rev 14:9,10)
In the face of all that bad news that is impending, God will have a bride who will accept His laws as the basis of His domionion–which is the meaning of kingdom–dominion by a king.
And He has pledged to write His laws in our hearts, but that promise has an unseen context that most American’s have not considered.
When New World Order is set up with martial law in the face of food rioting and calamity with occupation by UN “Peace-keepers” there will be NO freedom in the US with cameras on every street corner and surveilance of every phone or email, etc, so that Jer 31:8,10,17 will be necessary to gain the promise in Jer 31:31-33.
May God bless you in the study of His word.
Let us not trust our souls to anything else because Christ is the Word…
Richard Ruhling
Responding to N Darricks saying for Anne:
“you have discovered one
truth,there is still one more truth you should discover;the church”
As the moon shines by reflection from the sun and is a symbol of the church, so the church is a faint light compared to Christ. He is the Truth that we need, not the church. The church is about to be purified in the furnace of tribulation. Out if it we can emerge strong in Christ is we don’t sell the truth and accept a compromised Christianity that is going to rule New World Order.
http://ChooseABetterDestiny.com also has help for atheism
Richard Ruhling
Bravo, John La! The teachings of Jesus are what matters; his
principles are universal, unlike the teachings of some churches who claim to be the only true Christian congregations. The opposition to gays was not a teaching of Jesus, but is found only in Leviticus, along with other outdated prohibitions such as wearing garments of mixed sorts, which the New Testament superseded. And Jesus said
nothing about abortion, but he did condemn — unequivocally — the practice of divorce (because it left women helpless in those ancient times). Anne Rice may have left the Catholic Church for good reasons, especially for the kind of hypocrisy that Jesus would have been the first to condemn. But she still has her faith, which is in her heart, not in a building
or a human institution.
H>G.
Dear Helen.
I don’t see anything in John La’s post referring to homosexuality or abortion. I feel for you if you have aborted your pregnancy. You say Jesus did not say anything about abortion, what about “though shall not kill?” or the fruitage of the belly is a gift from God! Is God pleased if we do not feel for the unborn whom he has gifted us with?
Although many conceive outwith the bonds of a loving marriage it is not the fault of the unborn. It is our obligation as adults to ensure we do not put ourselves in such a situation. Is it really acceptable to have our unborn cruelly torn to shreds whilst in the mother’s womb?”. I am sorry if this is hard hitting. But if we claim to be Christian we must learn the love of Christ who did not sanction cruelty. I can understand how it suits you and many people to say Jesus viewed these things in the way you suggest.
Thankfully for all of our sakes Jesus and the apostles did welcome all people. Sinners of all kinds! But once sin is recognised and people are baptised in the Lord there is a requirement for all Christians not to commit serious sin. 1st Corinthians 5:1 A man who commited fornication should have been taken from the midst and removed from the 1st Century congregation; and 1st Cor.5:5 says such a man should be handed over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh in order that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
From 1st Corinthians 6:6-19 he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. Flee from fornication. I hope you will read these scriptures and come to a decision according to the Word of God through scripture. If you read this notice verse 11 says neither fornicators or adulterers nor men who lie with men will inherit God’s Kingdom and yet that’s what some of you were but you have been washed clean in the blood of the lamb and declared righeous”. After being cleansed Christians cannot return to their former ways.
I feel for people who have homosexual tendancies and I know Jesus and God do too. Nevertheless we cannot contradict the word of God. Galatians 5:16-19 Councels “keep walking by spirit and you will carry out no fleshly desire”. This goes on to explain what we need to know to be accepted into God’s Kingdom and all manner of fornication including homosexuality is listed.
God’s Kingdom will not take up our pleadings to be allowed to do as we please because if it did the world would remain alienated from God and his purpose for a new, cleansed earth where righeousness and peace will dwell would not come into force. But God has promised His Kingdom Will Take Place Over the Earth!..
May God Bless You, and Bless us all who are Christian, Helping us to Keep to his standards and not continue to rely on our own understanding.
ps hope you find the love of Our Lord and become his follower.
I once had a girlfriend who had an abortion (before she met me). She is just the greatest girl, such a sweetheart. Anyway, she is not American, where she lives, late-term abortions are allowed. She got the abortion because she stayed sick the entire pregnancy, vomiting every day. When she got the abortion, she was conscious. She saw the doctor take the baby and throw it in the trash. She saw her baby so clearly, she could even see that it was a boy. For weeks after that, so she told me, she had nightmares every night. In her nightmare her baby boy kept saying “Mommy, please save me!” But by then, of course, it was too late. She said it almost killed her, she wanted to kill herself. She said that if she hadn’t seen the baby with her own eyes, she would never realized the significance of what she had done. She was crying as she told me this, and I could only think, “Lord, please forgive her, she knew not what she did”. Abortion is a tragedy all the way around, for both mother and child. She has a little girl now, about 4 years old, and you can better believe she loves her daughter to the MOON and back. And she always has been the greatest girl, even though she did that.
Responding to Miguel Romero who said the first African convert to Christianity was Philip, “an eunuch, and thus probably gay.”
Being a eunuch does not make one gay. Christ even commended those who become eunuchs “for the kingdom of heaven’s sake” (Matt 19:12) Daniel was an example of this; we must not jump to conclusions.
Responding to Miguel Romero who said, I think non-catholic christians should consider the “middle name” of that [Catholic, Universal] Church: APOSTOLIC. Following the teachings of the apostles, the witnesses of christ.
A person can philophically be universal (catholic with a little “c”) and not be part of the Roman Catholic communion, but in the endtimes. we will either be in the narrow way that Christ said leads to life, or the broad way that leads to destruction, Matt 7:13,14.
The Catholic Church leaders are not walking in the way of the apostles, as anyone reading the book of Acts of the Apostles can see, though there are many exceptions like Mother Teresa. But we should be studying the Bible more than studying or judging people
Richard
dear Richard- (apostilc.)- is best discription so far.
HE- told oposels- to make DISCIPLES–
THEY REFERD TO SELVES AS keepers-of covenent- folowers of the way- some thing- most seam to over look, …
+- non bealevers -= evolutionist- CONVENYANTLY- no see –
the singal cell that becomes 2- IS an- ADULT-
GERMS multiply- = no baby germs, …
a turtil- BABY- full adualt- conscisnesh= strate from egg- to oscean, – SORRY- so many things to conflickt with evolutionist – love rex, -yes JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY, –