10 years ago someone said to me, “These days you may not even know your next door neighbor, but you exchange emails with your buddy in South Africa twice a week.” I looked out the window at the house next to mine – barely knew the neighbors – and yes I was sitting there sending emails to someone in some far-off country.
Every week I get on conference calls and say hi to everyone and barely think twice about the fact that I’ve got 17 people from Texas, four from Perth, one from Amsterdam, one in Alaska, one in Lebanon.
Ever heard Thomas Friedman’s “McDonalds theory of world peace”? He observes that with only one exception, no two countries with a McDonalds have ever gone to war with each other.
Can you imagine, say, the US going to war with Australia? Think of all the emails the senators and congressmen would get: “Hey, stop trying to kill my customers! And by the way, here’s a list of 115 blogs from people who are trapped in the Siege of Sydney right now!”
The world is truly a strange and wonderful place. Just before I went on a trip, I loaded the first season of The Dukes of Hazzard on my video iPod so my 10 year old son would have something to watch while we trucked down Interstate 80.
That TV show ran in 1979 – the year that *I* was 10 years old. I said to Laura, “Who would’ve thought that 25 years later you’d be able to download an entire season of the Dukes of Hazzard onto a device that’s half the size of a pack of cigarettes, and our kids would watch it in the car with headphones and a 2″ screen?” We shake our heads in amazement.
OK, so what does all this have to do with spirituality?
Equality and technology… They have everything to do with spirituality.
Let’s start with equality.
The United States Declaration of Independence makes a world-shattering declaration that transformed the modern world:
“We hold these things to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”
In his book “Democracy in America” (1835) Alexis de Tocqueville carefully traces this statement and its idea of equality backward through history and lands at Galatians 3:28, the words of St. Paul:
“In Christ there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, slave nor free. All are equal in Christ Jesus.”
Before Paul said this, no one had ever made such a bold and sweeping statement. No one. Not the Jews or Babylonians, not the Egyptians, not the Greeks, not the Chinese. The concept of equality came first from Paul.
This idea got planted in western civilization and began to grow and develop, little by little dismantling slave trade, sowing the seeds for democracy and spurring technological and political progress. Tocqueville says that from 1100 AD to the present, every major development led to more equality, not less. The Magna Carta. The invention of the horseshoe. The invention of the gun and the post office and the printing press and democracy.
If you live in a democracy and you’re thankful for the ability to vote, if you’re thankful that people generally consider you and themselves to be just as good as anybody else, then thank Paul. And his Rabbi, Jesus.
Because – despite what the Declaration says – equality really is NOT self evident. At least it wasn’t to any of the ancient world prior to 2000 years ago. On the surface, we’re all different. Some are stronger. Some are smarter. Some have more money. Some are politically connected. Some are more savvy.
And some people get the scraps.
You have no principle to guide you but winners and losers. Which, divorced from any overriding sense of equality or individual dignity, is a cruel master.
But when Paul said this, he was declaring that there is an underlying *spiritual* reality, that yours and my true identity doesn’t come from accomplishments or money or power but from our Heavenly Father. That once we know that true identity we’re no longer slaves to money and power and accomplishments and the ‘natural’ order of things.
If you’re thankful that Western Civilization today considers all people to be intrinsically equal, be thankful that a young couple in Bethlehem gave birth to a baby who was to become the most loved, most hated, most argued about, most written about, most influential person in the history of the world. One who taught that the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. One in whom there is no male or female, no Jew nor Greek, no slave nor free.
So then how about technology?
Science itself is, at its core, a presumption of discoverable underlying order. A belief, an assumption (which cannot be proven in advance, by the way) that when an apple falls from a tree it does so because of some law of nature that caused it to do so. That there was a string of cause and effect that can be traced back to explain why this happened.
The apple did not fall from the tree because, say, Zeus was having a snit with Apollo and that’s why there was the lightning storm which is why there was a wind that caused the apple to swing back and forth and fall from the tree…. no, it happened for rational discoverable reasons. That God made a world which could operate consistently on its own without Him constantly making corrections from the outside.
So far as I can tell, the inspiration for this belief first came from Wisdom of Solomon 11:21:
“Thou hast ordered all things in measure and number and weight.”
(The Protestants omitted that book, but our Catholic friends thankfully left it in.)
If a scientist does not presume that there is a rational reason for what he is about to investigate, there is nothing for him to investigate at all. Belief in rationality comes from belief in a rational God. A God who wants us to discover His universe. For whom such discovery is an act of worship.
If you read the history of science over the last 500 years, the only reason science succeeded in the West – after getting started but failing in Greece, Rome, China, Egypt and in the Arab world – is that Christian theology understood God to have created the universe to operate according to fixed discoverable laws. Theology made that prediction, then people had a philosophical basis for having a scientific method.
In his fascinating book “The Victory of Reason” historian Rodney Stark further explains that the forward march of technology began after the fall of the Roman Empire and has marched steadily forward ever since. Equality implied that slavery was wrong, so people had to develop technology in order to free their slaves and still get the work done.
So… part of the inspiration for inventions like water wheels was a belief in dignity and freedom and the rights of the individual.
Technology is supposed to empower people, not enslave them. Because, as Paul said, in Christ, all are equal.
If you trace these ideas back through history, equality and technology and even iPods and Democracy have everything to do with our very beliefs about the universe and about God. And yes, even Jesus.
Case in point: it’s politically incorrect to say “Merry Christmas” cuz it’s too religious. Instead you get a tepid, watered down “Happy Holidays.”
It’s because Christ is offensive. When a guy smashes his thumb with a hammer, he doesn’t say “Krishna” or “Buddha,” he says Jesus Christ. Because that’s the most loaded, most powerful word in the English language.
There’s no name you can invoke that’s more powerful than the Son of God.
~~~
Do you know what the most important invention in the history of the world was?
It wasn’t the computer. And it sure wasn’t the light bulb or the telephone. (Or even the electronic voting machine.)
It was the printing press.
In 1445, Johannes Gutenberg invented the world’s first movable type printing press. He didn’t know it, but he was unleashing a revolution that continues to this day. Even the mighty Internet in the 21st century is just an extension of Gutenberg’s original, revolutionary machine.
The first book he printed was the Bible. And that led to controversy, too, because Luther translated it into German, the people’s language, instead of Latin, the lingo of the religious elite.
Suddenly, ordinary folks could not only afford a copy, but they could read it for themselves instead of getting some guy’s slanted interpretation. Soon the cat was out of the bag–there were copies scattered all over Europe.
It’s no coincidence that the scientific enlightenment and industrial revolution began in earnest within 50 years of this. Not that it wasn’t already underway (it had already gathered considerable momentum) but now that ordinary folks had access to knowledge and the freedom to pursue it, the possibilities were limitless.
The printing press took the handcuffs off of knowledge and spirituality, and the world has never been the same. Equal access to knowledge empowered people everywhere, and it was only natural that the Renaissance, and in time, democracy too would follow.
Every year at Christmas we celebrate the person who inspired these revolutions. Jesus’ teachings were radical and scandalous. He claimed to be the Son of God. He said he would rise from the dead, and according to the historical accounts, he did. He stepped into the world and split time in half: BC and AD. And his words still resonate throughout the earth today.
Still rolls the stone from the grave.
In the spirit of what Jesus taught us, I hope that you’ll use our 21st century printing press, the Internet, to not enslave but empower individuals. To bring more equality, to make the world a better place for your fellow man.
Thanks for reading.
Perry Marshall
Dear Mr. Perry,
Hearty thanks for your kindness to let me read the 9 lies. Thanks for the other texts you sent me.
I am 70; I am a former atheist and communist. English is not my mother language. I met Holy Bible soon after 1989.
I would like make you remember that a lot of mistakes have been and are practiced on the religious field. Lies, mistakes or misunderstandings were introduced in the original Holy Bible. A couple of theologizes fought against to some of them. You know better than me this think. Nowadays, there are many religious. Some of them derived from the initial Christianity. Orthodox, Anglican, Catholic, Lutheran s.o. Based on the invented sentences, a lot of sects are born.
Due to You and your team of Coffehousetheology have been deeply study the holy tests I would like make a proposal for you:
• a table (a summary) of lies, mistakes, bad interpretation, human invention introduced in Holy Text
• what are the eliminated lies in the frame works of known religions;
• who was the reformer;
• when this action had been done;
History of Religious may offer much stuff in the field. A known Romanian author is Mircea Eliade. He was a professor of the subject.
I hope do not mind of my daring.
Best regards!
Iuliu
Tony Francis says that Mary Magdelene was promiscuous, so Tony where in the Bible does it say this? Just wondering.
Best Regards, Tony Waters, CanadaNorth
Hip perry
have you read and listened to the works of a.e.wildersmith?.Have listened to most of his mp3 lectures, and he was an outstanding scientist, who put forward a marvellous argument for intelligent design.
kind regards
james
i would like to know why people think that homosexuality is wrong. straight people find homosexuality disgusting because they’re straight and their sexuality is different, therefore they will find it disgusting. gay people feel the same way its just the zeitgeist’s view of homosexuality, peer presure and the fear of being disowned by family that forces them to have fake relationships with people of the opposite sex. is that realy right? no one has ever “cured” it. it is cause by the fetus not producing enough testosterone, therefore only masculinising the body and not the brain. the physiological differences between gay men and straight men are: that gay men have shorter limbs; larger penis; gay men and straight women have equally proportioned brains, unlike straight men; Gay and non-gay people’s brains respond differently to two human sex pheromones; One region of the brain (amygdala) is more active in gay men than non-gay men when exposed to sexually arousing material; Gay men may receive higher scores than non-gay men on tests of object location memory. gay men are exposed to a testosterone derivative found in men’s sweat, a region in the hypothalamus is activated. Heterosexual men, on the other hand, have a similar response to an estrogen-like compound found in women’s urine. The conclusion is that sexual attraction, whether same-sex or opposite-sex oriented, operates similarly on a biological level. it is not natural to pressure homosexuals to act heterosexual, as it is unnatural, and unkind, where is the equality here?
Dear Prof Perry Marchall
It is my great pleasure to thank you over your extraordenary task,after thanking Our Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Holy God.
It is also so fruitfull to follow your publications.
Q: Why the cosmological inflationary universe scenario has different interpetations ,despite it is solves the iternal cosmoloical puzzel such as flatness ,horizon, ,,,
and still uneble to discover the magnetic monopole ?
Thank you very much and I pray toOUR HOLY GOD to enpower and
to give the strenght to extend your ability to reach people to know Jesus Christ
Many blessing.
Respectfully
Jaudat Rashed
I could not reach you with my questions but failed to understand the reason. This is my last attempt. read your thought-provoking mails on evolution. But your renderings on spirituality or theology seems to be inclined to a particular faith that tempts some one to think you as a priest. What if there are more than one true religion? What if Solomon’s wisdom was was recognized by others even before Christians knew? What if intelligent design behind in human genome was known was known to other faith?
Respectfully submitted.
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There are doors that you can put in to replace the ones you have that will help with bad storms and also to keep thieves out. I would look into them.
I see inequality as a human nature that gets expressed when some people have more power than others. Christians, Muslims, Hindus and atheists are all vulnerable to this form of human abuse towards other humans and you can use the Bible, probably other scriptures, Marxism and Darwinism to justify exerting power over others. It has little to do with religion except that religion sometimes gives leaders opportunity to exert power over others. Men do this to women. Masters do this to slaves. White races when powerful do this to other races.
But enlightened people refuse to treat others as inferior and their faith or non faith has probably little influence. I believe that in general, this inequality occurs somewhat less now than in the past. I would have hoped that religious nations would have banned slavery but sometimes the most religious were the slowest to adopt this reform. I can only wonder how Christian nations might have championed this virtue of equality if Jesus had truly taught it. Imagine if he had “set the slaves free” instead of saying “masters, treat your slaves with kindness” Isn’t this a justification of inequality? How is the slave “free in Christ?” Why did he leave this reform to Paul? Imagine if he had some female disciples? 2000 years later, women get to vote. Most Churches, with scriptural justification still see women as “in the image of man”. You can more easily become a political leader than a church leader as a female. Who is the champion of equality?
As humans learn from history, our culture evolves and we see glimpses of equality emerging, sometimes championed by people who happen to be secular or religious alike.
BTW scientific method also gradually emerged and has spawned the emergence of the greatest increase in human knowledge, technology, health and quality of life that we have ever seen. I cannot imagine that this had anything to do with any ancient scripture about “Thou hast ordered all things…” I cannot think of a more tenuous link.
“Belief in rationality comes from belief in a rational God.” – Perry.
I would suggest that rational thought follows the observation that apples always fall by gravity, and noticing a law, but belief in God is not implied at all.
I’m 100% with you. I became a Christian in college just as I was starting my physics degree. I would study physics during the day then read the bible at night. For some reason I found the pure sciences and ancient scripture saying the same thing. Thirty years later I’m barely scratching the surface. The scriptures are very powerful, but we can only really begin to understand them as our scientific knowledge expands
Sir you have good mind but you are going on a wrong way if you want to explore the realities of world and mysteries of life then you need islam.
Dear Perry Please read all of what I am posting and please give me a reply as to your thoughts on the matter.
Questions needing answers. Have we been created or are atheists right? If Christianity is true logic tells us they have some truth but if any religion or religious person could possible have all the truth who is that person? There are three persons who have the complete truth and they are much superior in knowledge than any human and have the power to save but will everyone who thinks they are saved be saved?
One important question I would like to ask all Christians and Muslims; in fact everyone who has or does not have a belief in God. For atheists I would like to ask if they measure up to a high standard of human character and principles and if that matters? If a Christian do we measure up to the standard of truth necessary to be approved by God. If we do not are there any consequences and does it matter?
Please Perry would you search the internet site for; Heavenly Experience Heavenly angel and consider what Angelica’s video reveals to you.
Anyone who has not viewed the story of “A man dies comes back to life” Please view this also.
Also if anyone has not seen the beauty of Akiane who is definitely God’s child in truth please this must be seen to be believed. Just type Akiane Kramarik and see Jesus and Heaven for yourselves.
There are many video contacts revealing back from the dead experiences which I believe are necessary to view and consider. I am not saying believe but there are certain consistencies from all over this world where people are having experiences that are easier for me to believe than the truths and lies promoted by general world views which I believe to be demonic. Why should we just accept all world news and info world leaders feed our minds and not consider experiences that are more believably relate God’s truth.
My personal understanding of the bible and what I have been told is not the same as what these videos reveal but that doesn’t mean what I know and have been informed is wrong or that these experiences are wrong just because I have not experienced the same.
Would be grateful for views on and pray there will be possitive feedback.
Please Perry would you visit these sites and if you agree with them give them consideration and post them or reveal these things to your people on this site.
I am not good at computing or I would have imbedded the link.
perrari,
what you write is generally true, with one major reservation.
‘ – Bhagavad Gita which predate John’s words by several thousand
years – ‘
AFAIK, the ‘Gita’ appeared much later, around the 12th century? Before was Brahminism, a very different kettle of fish. Modern Hinduism began as a reform of Brahminism, which very much featured a hierarchy of h/bings with differing degrees of inherited spirituality. At the top was the Brahmin/Holy Man. The reforms were a response to the challenges of Buddhism (600BC), which emphasized the equal spiritual potential in all, irrespective of caste or class.
Very similar, schismatic tropes seem to be part of the history of every religion. OGT
Hi Tom,
Nice to hear from you, but WHAT have you been reading?
Bhagavad Gita was spoken by Lord Krishna, to Arjuna on the battle field of Kurukshestra before one of the bloodiest battles ever recorded in history. It is incorporated in Mahabharata (6th chapter) which gives accounts of the lead up to the battle and the battle itself.
Any Google search for Krishna, Arjuna, Mahabharata, Kurukshetra or Bhagavad Gita gives ample evidence to satisfy a reasonable person that the events took place well before the appearance of Jesus. Some accounts give 3,000 years BC, some 1,000 BC, but I have never come across any reference to 12th century AD!
It is true that Lord Buddha’s appearance was to minimize the Vedic version, but that was because the followers had lost their way and were misusing the Vedas for their own purposes. Caste-ism was one of those misuses.
Bhagavad Gita states clearly in chapter 4 verse 13 that society can be divided into 4 groupings, (varnas) these are brahmins/intellectuals; Kshatriyas/administrators; vaishyas/producers and traders; and sudras/those that render service to the other three. A person fits in one or other due to ‘guna’, their qualities, and ‘karma’ their activities, NOT due to their birth.
catur-varnam maya sristam
guna-karma-vibhagasah
tasya kartaram api mam
viddhy akartaram avyayam
Here are 4 different translations of the verse: Krishna is speaking:
1.”According to the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society are created by Me. And although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable.”
H.D.G. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
2.The four divisions of human order were created by Me according to differences of quality, activity and aptitude; although the creator of this, know Me as the non-doer being immutable
Dr. Ramanand Prasad
3.The four Varna or divisions of human society, based on aptitude and vocation, were created by Me. Though I am the author of this system, one should know that I do nothing and I am eternal.
Author unknown.
4……..But I am He
Made the Four Castes, and portioned them a place
After their qualities and gifts. Yea, I
Created, the Reposeful; I that live
Immortally, made all those mortal births:
Edwin Arnold.
According to one’s work, qualities, aptitude, vocation, activities or gifts, one fits in one of the four divisions of society. NOT according to one’s birth.
Caste-ism according to birth is NOT supported or even mentioned in Bhagavad Gita.
It should come as no surprise that materialistic people misconstrue scripture to further their own ends, and Hinduism has much to answer for in that regard, just as Christianity does, but to dismiss the teachings of great personalities (like Krishna or Jesus) because some followers have got it wrong, is the cry of atheists who do not want to be troubled by a higher power who can judge them.
Religions may morph, change and fracture, but as long as the original teachings remain, especially in the original language, a person may judge for themselves the validity of the teachings separately from those claiming to follow them.
I stand by my claim that spiritual equality was presented by Lord Krishna (B.Gita 9.32) long before Christ’s appearance, and that caste-ism is a perversion and is neither taught nor supported by Krishna (B.Gita 4.13).
Caste-ism like pornography exists, that is accepted, but I would not surmise that because Christians watch pornography, it was taught by Jesus.
I would welcome your………… and Perry’s comments, since I know he holds a different view and ducked my last post. I am left wondering if he arrived at his conclusions by scriptural study, or seeing some children breaking rocks.
Perrari.
Thank you Perry, but still finding great difficulty in locating posts you inform me about, so am posting a reply to ‘perrari’ of September 2 here. It’s as near as I can get.
Perrari,
thanks; my sources are English translations of Bhagavadgita & Mahabharata, supplemented with Indian history. These indicate you are being a mite disingenuous.
You say, ‘Caste-ism according to birth is NOT supported or even mentioned in Bhagavad Gita.’ Perhaps not directly in our modern terms, but handled nevertheless. Krisna continually returns to Arjuna’s responsibility to fight for what is right, since he is of the ksatriya (warrior) caste. Modern, pacifist-inclined interpreters have read this as an injunction to meditate (!). That doesn’t convince me, even if fudged as an and-and option.
And come now; you have read & studied the Mahabharata. The rivalry between the Pandava & Kaurava clans is inflamed by the refusal of the Pandava’s to treat the (apparently) low-born Karna as an equal (ksatriya). Rejected, Karna joins the Kauravas, with disastrous consequences. The message is apparently that soul-state may be divine & hidden even in a low-caste body. So you do not find the actual word ‘caste’? That is confusing form of words with message content.
As with the Bible, there are various versions of the Mahabharata, composed of sections written by different people in various eras, often with socio-political agendas. Behind the written texts there is a thousands-of-years-old oral tradition. All these ancient writings are subject to interpretation by various scholars & (often) warring theological sects. But notice, the ‘divine word’ is always wordy, & never as simple as a cooking recipe for the backward. It must be interpreted by the wise & good. Why else would Ganesh in particular commission Vyasa to write the Mahabharata? Precisely becoz he was god of scholarship & wisdom.
Historians tend to associate the egalitarian, anti-Brahmin-elitist turn with the resurgence of popular Hinduism & the decline of Buddhism, but many other factors may have been at work. Eg., some have argued that Buddhism lost popularity as monks tended to retreat into monastic isolation from local communities. And to play devil’s advocate for historical materialism, the Buddhists’ love of poverty set them increasingly apart from rich & powerful rulers. These were once their protectors. OGT
Hi Tom, what a joy to converse with someone here that is familiar with Indian scriptures, but still I can’t see how the points you make have any bearing on caste-ism, and Lord Krishna’s assurance that spiritual equality is the right of everyone.
Arjuna was a ksatriya, a warrior, a soldier, a prince at a time when princes led troops from the front. He was a military man, that was his nature, and as such, his duty was to fight to protect religious principles. How many times have we seen in movies where the officer in charge calls upon his soldiers to ‘do their duty’? This nearly always means go out and fight facing possible or certain death. Was Nelson guilty of caste-ism when he signaled: “England expects that every man will do his duty,” before the battle of Trafalgar?
Krishna appeals to Arjuna to fight because he is a ksatriya, and it is the duty of ksatriyas to fight when required and not slink off to the forests.
How does this have anything to do with the later corruption of caste by birth?
Karna’s predicament actually shows that it doesn’t matter what your birth is if you have the qualities of the varna you claim to follow.
He was as you say (apparently) born in a lower class family, that of Adhirath, a chariot driver, which meant that he could not claim to be royalty, as he had no kingdom. (One cannot claim to be a member of a royal family just because he has qualities that royal family members have). As such he was not considered one of the ‘elite’ Kshatriya (royalty) by the Pandavas. He was an extraordinary ‘ordinary’ Kshatriya.
Duryodhana, seeing the outstanding martial feats and accomplishments of Karna, and always mindful that there would one day be a showdown with the Pandavas, immediately invited Karna with open arms to join him, and gave him a kingdom. From then on Karna was accepted as a card-carrying member of the Kshatriya royalty by the Pandavas as well as the Kauravas. By dint of his prowess, and that he was now a king, DESPITE his humble background, he was entitled to take his place along side the maharathis of Royal descent and ancestry. This clearly endorses that caste is not by birth, but by quality, aptitude and ability as declared by Krishna in Bhagavad Gita.
Everywhere in the world people are mistreated according to their birth. Thousands of innocent Iraqi and Afghani citizens have died in the recent wars at the hands of the western military’s, bombs, bullets and missiles. Their deaths are considered acceptable by the US government simply because of where they were born. If they had been born in America and were visiting Iraq as tourists there would not have been thousands of them dying as ‘collateral damage’. Why not? Because they were born in America and are therefore Americans. The Iraqi and Afghani civilians died because their deaths were ‘acceptable’ since they were not born in America and thus Americans. This distinction of whether a person’s death is acceptable or not, is decided purely by birth. Nothing to do with whether they are a threat or not, what political views they hold, what religion they are. No, simply they were not born in America, so it matters less or not at all if they die.
Seen this way, America practices international caste-ism. If you are born in America somehow your life is more valuable than if you are born elsewhere. SIMPLY BY BIRTH.
There are many white Anglo-Saxon Americans who do not accept African-Americans as equals. They just don’t and never will. (I’ll wager a few of them call themselves Christians.) KKK etc. This is caste-ism. It is not supported by the government or the church, but it exists, and is called racism instead of caste-ism, but it is the same, as they are both determined solely by a person’s birth.
In England there is the Royal family, the aristocracy, the upper middle class (untitled aristocracy), the middle class and the working class. These are all decided BY BIRTH.
Prior to the nineteenth amendment passed in 1920 the American constitution did not guarantee the rights of all women to vote. This discrimination against women was due to their birth, nothing else. Same basis as the corrupt Indian caste-ism.
India had a female head of government in 1966, second only to Sirimavo Bandaranaike in Sri Lanka, ahead of Great Britain, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, and way ahead of USA which is still to take the plunge.
Do you really think that Christendom and America are free from prejudices, discrimination and mistreatment due to birth?
Perhaps the bogus Indian Brahmins are more devious in trying to assert their superior position through religion, similar to one abandoned Christian teaching that asserts that Africans have no souls, but there should be no mistake that Christendom and the Western cultures retain a great deal of discrimination and prejudice based upon nothing more than an individual’s parentage, even though it is politically incorrect and unsupported in the Bible. Similarly the exploitative caste-ism in India is not legal under the Indian constitution and it is not a tenet in Vedic scripture, which sees all living beings as spiritually equal, with equal opportunity to approach the Supreme Lord.
None of this however is relevant to the main point I make which is that spiritual equality was not first introduced by St. John, as Mr. Perry Marshall claims.
Just as the activities of Christian slave traders and owners do not negate Christ’s or even St John’s words, neither do any examples of social customs from India’s past or present discount Krishna’s words that ANYONE regardless of their birth or gender can approach Him. Bhagavad Gita 9.32.
This is not a challenge to any of the teachings of Jesus or even St John, nor an attack on Christianity, but it is to set the record straight.
Spiritual equality was understood in India long before the appearance of Jesus and the teachings of St. John, and is supported by scriptural evidence.
Are you, as well as Mr. Marshall, unwilling to recognize that?
Respectfully,
Perrari
perrari,
thanks for your comments of 11 September 2012. We can agree, I think, that neither East or West lives up to its religious principles. Yes? I am certainly not being drawn into a debate about relative merits. Of the Maharabhata, I was fascinated by the TV serialization, & I saw the Peter Brooks theater version. It undoubtedly ranks with The Bible & Shakespeare as a great work of literature, & much else. It contains & conveys a very profound moral structure. The latter dawns on the thoughtful, yet as occasional village drama, the less educated are not left out. That impressed me much. The Bhagavadgita is also very moving. Not everyone hears the sacred conch with its call to duty. Not everyone u/stands what their duty is. As world war III threatens to begin in the Middle East, I wonder if our present world is about to be obliterated again, as Hastanapur once was.
Hi Tom,
I’m very happy to read your appreciation of Mahabharata, and I too have no inclination to debate modern conditions and practices in an East versus West competition. I made the points only to prick the moral superiority bubble that some posters have towards India. At present India is struggling with rascals who have exploited the system of democracy and have got themselves legally installed in government and are currently making hay while the sun shines at the expense of the general public. Nuff said.
You have nicely pointed out that there is enough village drama to captivate the less educated, and that in fact is the purpose of the Puranas, to make deep philosophy available to the common man. (Yet another evidence that all of society were eligible for spiritual upliftment).If you have ever studied Vedanta Sutra and the Upanishads, you will know that it requires above average intelligence and an honest teacher to assimilate the knowledge they contain.
The Puranas were compiled after Vyasadeva had dictated the four Vedas to Ganesh, and are known as the fifth Veda. The 18,000 verse Bhagavat Purana is without a doubt the very last word in spiritual matters, and even casts a shadow over the mighty Mahabharat.
If all the books in the world were destroyed and only Srimad Bhagavatam remained, there would be no great loss, as it contains the essence of all subjects relevant to man.
Although films, television and the internet, are now common place throughout India there are still groups which travel from village to village enacting scenes from Mahabharata, Ramayana, and Srimad Bhagavatam, so everyone is familiar with the five basic truths of Bhagavad Gita. One of them being ‘karma’. In that respect the simple laborers in the fields know more about why suffering happens than most cardinals, bishops, priests and pastors.
It is no joy for me to agree that WW III is almost upon us, and it indeed heralds the disappearance of the way of life that we have grown up with.(No great loss there.) WW I and WW II were dress rehearsals for what is coming. After creating the atom bomb someone asked Einstein how he thought WW III would be fought.
He replied:” I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”
The non-stop highly-developed slaughter of innocent animals and unborn babies will eventuate in a horrific slaughter of mankind. Such are the laws.
India with her lesser dependence on technology and industry will be better placed to survive the catastrophe. Bullocks are still used throughout the country for farming and it is very common for individual villagers to keep their own cow for milk. Due to the lack of cold storage and refrigerated transportation, outside of the cities the veggies and fruits are generally locally grown.
Inside the cities it will be worse than hell but I believe 70% of the population live in rural areas.
Keep your eye on Pakistan. Our information is that that is where it will all start.
God bless
Perrari.
Thanks Perry, I get notifications of new posts, which I then have great difficulty in finding/locating on this site. I’m prolly dumb, but the site organization confounds me. Not complaining, suggesting: could the posts under topic headings be in strict chronological order, please? Posts of 2012 are followed by ones from 2009, 2010, etc. The ‘Search’ box doesn’t help. I’ve been searching w/out luck for Perrari’s post of 25-10-12. Accepting you are unpaid volunteers with limited time, so thanks.
Excellent article Perry.
I took time to read all the comments – and I am amazed to see how many people are ready to contest every reliable information we have from historians about Jesus, Paul and the Bible.
Usually they say things like “Jesus did not existed” and “all historical sources talking about Jesus are discredited”. This is a sign of serious lack of elementary culture. Not even Jewish or Muslim would say they Jesus never existed.
But when we read about the emperor Nero, no one contest the fact he blamed the Christians in Rome for burning the city. What Christians, people, in the year 64 at Rome, if Jesus did not existed?
We have available thousands of manuscripts of gospels and Paul letters, more than any other literature in the ancient world, but still some people are so blinded by the secular atheism they refuse to see.
And funny thing – in which other society than in a Christian democratic one, people could freely talk about those topics, questioning the Bible, without the fear of being stoned to death or discredited by society? Can you imagine a dialogue like this in Saudi Arabia or Iran? Would local atheist or Christian would have the courage to question Mohammad or Allah or Quran the way our american atheist or muslim fight against Christianity in States? I don’t think so.
For some weird reason, only in a protestant Christian country we can argue against Christianity… And only here atheist have the courage to do so. Why Richard Dawkins does not give lectures about the stupidity of Quran in Ryad or Teheran?
Aside from voicing the usual and always astonishing amalgam in American Protestantism of a rather banal and perfectly “flat” “civilizationism”, techno-worship, patriotism and American exceptionalism, and a variety of Christianity, as regards the current state of the US, this article essentially expresses political mythology and fantasy. It has little bearing on what the US has become in fact. Sadly, Americans as a collectivity are a sheeple, insouciant and ignorant to a fault, completely unaware that they have been stripped of their former constitutional protections, that their land has been turning into a lawless security-police state, and that they are thoroughly propagandized by a corporate media into supporting the evil actions of an unaccountable government. In many ways they remind one of the Germans prior to WWII, but of course without the excuse of a Versailles Treaty.
See, for example, the many articles by Paul Craig Roberts, former Asst. Sec. of the Treasury and also a former Wall St. Journal Editor, etc., at paulcraigroberts.org. See also Gerald Celente at Trends Journal. See also this post of former FBI researcher Sibel Edmonds:
The American Majority & Its Deadly Chronic Disease Called Apathy
They say we need more revelations. I say we have had more than enough revelations on synthetic wars, atrocities, surveillance and torture. They wonder when the majority of Americans are going to speak up. And I say: The American Majority has already spoken—loud and clear.
The United States government has been engaged in the worst kind of human rights abuses, detention and torture around the globe. That’s a fact. And the American Majority knows this. The US Congress, NGOs and various human rights organizations, numerous reports, witnesses, leaks and whistleblowers, even the government propaganda outlets (aka US media) have established this as an undisputable fact: The United States has been engaged in unthinkable ongoing operations involving kidnapping, torture, black sites and detention centers, and murder all over the world. The American Majority knows this. They have spoken: with their silence.
The United States government has been engaged in ongoing police state operations, utilizing all sorts of surveillance and witch-hunt methods. Whether through the NSA’s massive surveillance, or the FBI’s massive informant cadre, or its joint operations with corporate partners, the United States government has been spying on and collecting a wide range of private information from its citizens at home and those abroad. Again, this is a known fact. And everybody knows. Ongoing revelations and leaks have made this an undisputable fact. And the American Majority has already spoken: with their silence.
So is it really more revelations we need? More whistleblowers? More alternative websites in the business of educating the people on these issues? Because from where I stand I can tell with one hundred percent certainty: The American Majority already knows. They have spoken: with their silence. And their silence speaks more than a million words.
Then, what is it that we are trying to do? If knowing, being aware, has so far translated into a loud deafening silence, then, what is the next logical step? Keep telling them what they already know? Ask more whistleblowers to put their lives on the line to tell them what they’ve been told for years?
As a whistleblower and activist for a dozen years I spent much time and energy pointing a finger at entities such as the U.S. Congress, the U.S. Courts and the media. In the end I have come to identify the real culprit in all of this: The American Majority and its deafening silence and persistent indifference. I have known and worked with hundreds of government whistleblowers, who in the end came to much the same conclusion. Sure, the U.S. government can intimidate, gag, classify, prosecute, jail and torture us. But you know what? All that would be for a noble worthy cause if the people were on our side. All those prices paid would be worthwhile and justified, if only the people utilized those sacrifice-driven revelations and reports to fight against our government’s crimes against humanity-and us, the people.
This is why I no longer expect or demand additional whistleblowers and more revelations. We do not need more revelations. We do need less apathy. We do not need additional whistleblowers. We do need a vocal majority. It is not the State and the one percent that is destroying our liberties, world peace and humanity. It is the silence of the American Majority and its deadly disease called pure apathy.