In the religious bureaucracy of the ancient world, women were basically property. If she burned his toast, he could divorce her and send her away destitute. If she saw a crime in progress and reported it to the police, her testimony in court would be thrown out–simply because she was female. Women weren’t considered smart enough to recount what really happened.
Isn’t that special?
Get this. Jesus gets crucified. His body is taken down and put in a guarded tomb.
Three days later, some of his female friends come to the tomb, the door is wide open, and nobody’s inside. They’re shocked. But they’re even more shocked when Jesus shows up. He talks to them. These women are the first people to see this astonishing event and report it. The men don’t believe it until they see for themselves.
Well here’s the kicker: Had somebody invented this resurrection story out of thin air, they would *never* have said that women found the empty tomb–because women in that culture were considered inferior and unreliable anyway.
So what this demonstrates is:
1) It’s highly unlikely this story is made up, because no person who invents such a hoax would ever put women in this role. The fact that women are the first witnesses to this event strongly suggests that Jesus DID actually rise from the dead. A conclusion that has staggering implications.
2) This also shows that Christianity considers women to be equal to men. Jesus had many women in his inner circle, and there were female leaders and prophetesses in the early church.
When religion runs amok, it’s always in the interest of one of three things:
-Money-
-Sex-
-Power-
Don’t you agree?
And what could be more convenient than for selfish men to shove women around and say it’s the will of God?
You know, the thing about genuine spirituality is that it isn’t used as a weapon to control people. Yes, Jesus gave some pretty stern warnings and he talked about some heavy subjects. But how often do you see him bossing his followers around?
He didn’t do that. Instead, he took off their shoes and washed their dirty feet to show them how they should serve each other. His life and death are the deep irony of God engaged in the humble service of mankind.
Tomorrow I’m going to attack Lie #5. This one may surprise you:
‘There is no single truth. Everyone needs to explore and find a truth that works for them.’
Respectfully Submitted,
Perry Marshall
Why must we as intelligent humans beings ponder on whether Eve was plucked out of Adams rib, or debate about whether who tempted who in that magical garden? Surely, in the 21st century, can we not move on, up and away from age long debates that we haven’t to date proved true or not? Okay, so some of the stories about about womens’ oppression, but hell are we still not oppressed in some way still and perhaps will always be, not by our own willingness, but through our genetric predisposition? I am all for a ‘woman in power’ and have in my own individual way achieved a level of career satisfaction in a male dominated world. Call it arrogance or what ever you like, I will never feel inferior and will never disrepect or compromise my own faith in myself to feel less superior to any man? We all have our position in this world and a duty to fulfil as our conscience dictates. If anything, mankind would not exist if it was not for the womb of a woman and the male genitals! Therefore, all being equal.
Your logic is not very different from Eve’s she she decided to eat the forbidden apple. Satan realizing the weakness of Eve for flattery, was able to slyly use his craftiness to fill her with Pride, while despising God. Her inferior logic was not able to see through the impossibility of her becoming greater than God by eating the apple. Satan knew that he would not be able to fool Adam with such a stupid proposition. So he chose this tactic similar to what was used to destroy Samson through Delilah.
When a man opens a door for a woman, or when a man gets up and offers her a seat in a crowded bus, many women start wondering whether they are superior to men. But her inferiority complex and lack of logic drives her to sooth sayers, diviners, and sorcerers, and witches, who pamper and inflate her ego, like Satan did in the garden of Eden.
She accumulates worldly wealth, and material properties and adorn herself with gold and diamonds and jewelry and cosmetics and perfumes in a vain attempts to establish her superiority or equality with man. But such women succeed only in becoming more proud themselves and hardly creates a good impression on others. Instead of becoming more respected, they are looked down up on, thogh they hardly realize it because they are too intoxicated in their own greatness.
The above relationship of woman with man is similar to what mankind has with God. Man thinks and boasts that he is what he is because of his efforts and smartness , skill and intelligence and high technology, and scientific prowess. He does not realise that everything is given to him as a gift by God.
Of all the posts I’ve read, the ones by Christopher Grech seem the most congruous with literal and figurative (as well as absolutistic) interpretations of the relevant bible text.
1 Timothy 2:11-12 “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”
1 Timothy 2:13-15 “For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.”
1 Corinthians 11:3 “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
1 Corinthinans 14:34-35 “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.”
Colossians 3:18 “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.”
Ephesians 5:22-24 “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.”
1 Peter 3:14-6 “For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.”
Titus 2:3-5 “The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.”
1 Cor 11:7-10 “For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.”
Prov 12:4 “A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.”
Isaiah 3:12 “As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.”
The text is very clear to anyone with a basic understanding of english (we’ve also gone over all the permutations of the Greek and Hebrew in the relevant texts). It is becoming apparent to me from the original post and subsequent arguments that it requires considerable contortions, in the form of sophistry, selective perception and speculation, to infer that humanity is not intrinsically patriarchal by design. Moreover, this patriarchal design seems to relate directly to creation order and not to the Fall per se: In 1st Corinthians, Paul refers this matter directly to the order of creation, and that the angels who were present when humanity was created, are watching (Ephesians 3:10) for God’s authority. Creation order is again stated, more clearly, in 1st Timothy Chapter 2. It is also infered in the Book of Genesis, in the apparent delegation principle by which God deals with and speaks firstly with Adam in matters of importance. Adam was given authority to name woman in addition to his authority to name the other earthly creatures of God.
The whole story of Deborah/Jael is a very interesting one, standing as it is, a powerful and beautifully constructed statement *against* matriarchal social order. A very big deal is made in the scripture of the fact that Deborah was a woman leading the nation of Israel; as of Jael, who delivers the killing blow to the enemy general. This is a big clue with relation to the rest of the stories in the Book of Judges. Note that all of the Judges suffered from at least one significant flaw, situationally, characteristically or behaviourally, yet God deals with them as Judges, imperfect as they are. Look at the recurrent and progressive themes throughout the Book, and the patterns of intergender relationships involving the Judges in sequence. Also, carefully study the archetype portrayed by Hannah in the culmination of the book, and study how the distortion of gender values apparent during Deborah’s authority interleaved with moral and sexual degeneracy, culminating in the literal (with symbolic meaning) story of the concubine who is gang-raped, dissected into 12 pieces, and whose body parts are sent to the 12 tribes of Israel.
The whole notion of gender equality was a perversion of the humanist ideology of the so-called enlightenment era, which in turn was an idolatrous and proud ideology seeking to pervert or deny absolutist biblical moral values. There are well-documented ties between the feminist movement and occult practices, in particular, with dianic witchcraft. Gender psychometric studies consistently report superior outcomes for women (with regards to physical/mental health, life satisfaction, and “objective” indices of physical attractiveness) who are attitudinally “obedient” and “submissive”, and adhere to traditional gender roles. Essays by the likes of Toynbee and Jim Black invariably associate matriarchal social order with grotesque and widespread moral and sexual degeneracy (particularly with emphasis on abuse of women), disobedience of children, breakdown of family values and cultural decline throughout history. Doesn’t all of the latter sound too familiar for comfort with reference to our current status quo? Of note, isn’t this precisely the same pattern portrayed in the Book of Judges?
My strong impression of this entire matter, having been raised a liberal most of my life, is that modern society has become indoctrinated against biologically normal gender behaviour, at great cost to our psychosexual health, family functionality and general well-being in terms of societal cohesion. It is clear to me now that the patriarchal order is the default correct original design for humanity intended by God, which was present before the Fall and which is being undermined by pride and apostasy during the latter years of our fallen state prior to its restoration. The bible, clearly, consistently and inerrantly teaches that there is a chain of command and delegation principle of man above woman, and that female beauty is directly equated with essential gender obedience. The most intriguing property of this principle is that, the more one adheres to it and upholds this key principle the more glorious the soul becomes: the more wise, influential and authoritative the man, the more beautiful, graceful and elegant the woman.
Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
This text pertains to unity, not equality. “You are all one” not “you are all equal”.
Note the many parallels which describe Adam as a “figure” or “foreshadowing” of the Lord Jesus Christ (“of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.” Romans 5:14) and Eve as a “figure” of the Bride of Christ, or the Church. If the model marriage relationship is a symbolic representation of the relationship of Church to Christ, imagine the Bride of Christ, or the Church, looking up to Jesus in defiance and demanding equal privileges within the Godhead. The luciferian basis of feminist/gender liberalist ideology is much clearer to identify in this situation. (“I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.” Isaiah 14:14)
A superficial overview and some comparisons:
Both Adam and Jesus Christ were refered to as the Son of God:
the son of Adam, which was the son of God. Luke 3:38
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ 2 Cor. 1:19
Both were created perfect and sinless:
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good Gen. 1:31
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1 Tim 2:14
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man. Eph. 4:13
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin. 2 Cor. 5:21
Both were given dominion and authority to name those under their dominion:
and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen 1:28
and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Gen. 2:19
she shall be called Woman, Gen. 2:23
And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; Gen. 3:20
Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands. Psalm 8:6
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:25
He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. Ps. 147:4
He calleth his own sheep by name. John 10:3
Both “purchased” or acquired their brides by having their sides pierced:
And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; Gen. 2:21
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. John 9:34 (Blood to purchase, water to cleanse, as someone above noted)
Both of their brides were created for the pleasure of their husbands:
Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 1 Cor. 11:9
for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Rev. 4:11
Both are one in flesh/spirit with their brides:
This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: Gen. 2:23
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. Eph. 5:30
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit” 1 Cor 6:17
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ep 5:31-2
Both “died” at “the tree”:
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Gen. 3:6
they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. Acts 13:29
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree. 1 Pet. 2:24
Both sacrificed their lives for their brides:
for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Gen 2:17
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1 Tim. 2:14
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: 1 John 3:16
Both were cursed:
And unto Adam he said, cursed is the ground for thy sake
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: Ga 3:13
Both were “men of sorrow”:
in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Gen. 3:17
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, Is. 53:3
The symbology of thorns:
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; Gen. 3:18
And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: Matt. 27:29
This is hard issue. Many ‘religious’ leaders (Hellenism, Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, , even Communism etc.) mistreated women badly.
Some Christian forefathers had got their wrong ideas about women from un-biblical sources.
Yes, it true that man and woman are equal, but it doesn’t mind man is the boss of woman. Bible said man is KAPALE (Greek word for “source”)of woman.
Read “Why Not Women?” by Loren Cunningham and David Joel Hamilton. You will found in this book “the very evil secret of Devil why he likes to put women outside of the ‘battlefield’.” – see link in the bottom.
And Christian Men Network (CMN), founded by Edwin Cole is doing good work to help many men to see women in the right perspective.
http://www.ywampublishing.com/p-354-why-not-womenbra-fresh-look-at-scripture-on-women-in-missions-ministry-and-leadership.aspx
“Some Christian forefathers had got their wrong ideas about women from un-biblical sources. Yes, it true that man and woman are equal, but it doesn’t mind man is the boss of woman.”
I’m sorry, but have you even bothered to read the 3 posts above you?
When Paul says women should not be incharge, it is over religious matters not political. Futher he says it was the woman who was decieved not the man, this statement comes out clearly with the weak nature of women. Where we always have problems with God is when we try to give our own interpretation to what He says. God had never as a woman not to be a queen or a president except not to take control in His house.There are prophetesses in His House. He does not want women to teach here because the devil can still apply his old tactics like in the garden to mislead His children. I believe in man-woman equality, certain women even possess qualities that some men don’t have. There are certain spiritual realities that many christians do not know but limit themselves to what is written. Jesus said it is the Spirit that vivifies but the word alone kills. Many prefers to be workers of inqities than taking God’s Word like a child would.
To Dr Karl Lieben,
The Bible is not an interpretation, but written by man inspired by God, and hence it is God’s word for us, and us literally.
To Gabriel Tangwa
St. Paul did say to love your wife, as this is the way but if there is some divergence of views, it is the man that should and has to be the boss. This applies not only to household matters, but to spiritual and that of the state (political).
In the olden times the spiritual and political were one, and they should be. Often the political diverges from the spiritual and now we have politicians having human laws rather than obeying God’s Laws in the Bible.
Deuteronomy is clear in that we should not add upon God’s word and not detract one from it.
Hence overriding God’s word with laws upon laws, does in essence do away with God’s will on earth.
To Mr. Greech.
The bible was written by men for men. Jesus’ words never show discrimination. The pompous way men like to pretend that they were created first and are superior is a revelation to those who can see clearly that men are deluded. The female is the default sex, this is a fact. the embryo will continue on its natural female course unless there is a Y chromosome present which ‘forces’ (by flooding with male hormones) the baby to develop along the male route. It is a biological fact that males were created for diversity. If any sex was created first then it is far more likely to be the female.Fact. We don’t need many men for the human race to comfortably continue.A pity that, for your argument, most sinners in prisons are not women but men, in there for murder, rape, robbery etc. Men create wars, destruction.
Satan hates women so encourages men to treat women in vicious and contemptous fashion. The crimes men commit against women are hideous. When I read off these horrors can I actually believe that God would put these ‘men’ above women? NO!
Jesus NEVER said women should submit to men. I mean, what rubbish!! His favourite disciple was a woman, Mary, read the hidden gospels. So get off your high horse.
Dear Valerina, Jesus would always uphold what Father tells Him.
Just because you have issues with the Bible, does not mean that the Bible is in error, because it is not.
Read this please.
1 Corinthians
11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.
There was never a female disciple of Christ. You do not find it in the Bible (the Real Bible with all the other ones, such as theh Gospel of Philip and Thomas which are not there, plus Enoch etc.)
The bible was written by men for men.
The Bible is the inspired WORD of God.
Jesus’ words never show discrimination.
He would have if he had married a woman.
The pompous way men like to pretend that they were created first and are superior is a revelation to those who can see clearly that men are deluded. The female is the default sex, this is a fact. the embryo will continue on its natural female course unless there is a Y chromosome present which ‘forces’ (by flooding with male hormones) the baby to develop along the male route. It is a biological fact that males were created for diversity. If any sex was created first then it is far more likely to be the female.Fact.
A woman is a pot in which man plants his seeds.
The plant is not known by the pot, but by its fruit or seed.
The pot or woman has no identity, but is just a vessel to grow more seeds. Like the earth is a vessel or nursery to grow more people. Without God planting his seed, the earth will be just barren mud or soil like the moon or other planets.
That is why a man can have many wives (pots ) so that he can have more fruits, and he can chose to plant his seed in any empty pot.
But the pot has to grow and nurture whichever seed is planted in her.
We don’t need many men for the human race to comfortably continue.
True. You are very correct here. (for the reason I have given above). A master can have many servants. But a servant should serve only one master.
A pity that, for your argument, most sinners in prisons are not women but men, in there for murder, rape, robbery etc. Men create wars, destruction.
But all sin came into the world through one woman.
One adulteress woman with AIDS can tempt and infect a whole town of men. ( the male victims also passively sinned, but the motive for the crime would be from the female. The males would just have a couple of beers, some food, and go off to sleep. The temptresses wear skimpy clothes even in cold weather, and paint themselves with cosmetics and perfume to attract and trap their victims.)
Satan hates women so encourages men to treat women in vicious and contemptous fashion. The crimes men commit against women are hideous. When I read off these horrors can I actually believe that God would put these ‘men’ above women? NO!
If you carefully analyse the history of the world, every war or crime that has happened in this world was for a woman, or to satisfy the greed, envy or pride of a woman.
Jesus NEVER said women should submit to men.
Jesus was too polite to say that explicitly.
But you can deduce his opinions from his decisions to have only male apostles, and his choice of Peter to build his church upon, though he was personally very close to Mary Magdalene.
I mean, what rubbish!! His favourite disciple was a woman, Mary, read the hidden gospels. So get off your high horse.
The Bible was written by men for all humankind and inspired by God.
Jesus would certainly abide by what God established as a ranking order between man and woman. Jesus and God are at one, meaning that they are in accordance with one another. They are two seperate entities, but Christ would always abide by Father’s decrees.
Who said that Mary was His favorite disciple? There is no such gospel of Mary in the real Bible.
1 Corinthians
11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.
The way I understand it is that if men don’t contribute Either a Y OR X, a baby won’t develop. So the default is no baby.
“In Christ there is no male or female” is a nice verse that means our Lord is blind to any differences concerning salvation. Seems we just need the humility to accept a free* gift.
*free to us, but very painful price to the creator.
Rob. A male sperm is not strictly necessary for the egg to start dividing. The female egg can divide and behave as if fertilised by tweaking with an electrical current; the resultant child would be female obviously. All embryos fertilised by male sperm develop along the female blueprint until flooded with male hormones to force them to deviate from the norm (if fertilised by Y chromosome and destined to become boys). It is a total nonsense to suggest that the male was ‘made’ first.
However,I completely agree that any physical differences of gender,race etc are absolutely unimportant in spiritual matters and I wish we could see past these trifling matters as indeed Jesus did.
Maybe you should edit the page subject Lie #4: ‘Women are spiritually inferior and must bow to the authority of men.’ CoffeeHouseTheology to more catching for your webpage you write. I enjoyed the the writing yet.
How did earth’s crust form ? Water is the only molecule that is less dense as solid (ice) than its liquid form water.
It is impossible to compress a liquid. (hydraulics )
A spinning liquid consisting of melted rock,is it logical to expect that it would eventual float on the less dense in layer of melted rock . If it is possible why don’t volcanoes rip the thin other crust apart.
Johan
Thank you ALL FOR COMMENTING!
What a wonderful place to come and check out issues. Thanks Perry for opening up this platform.
My daughter wears a head covering because she takes literally the verse about covering the head.
Some chick at church came up to her, with her breasts heaving out of her shirt, and told my little girl that her headwrap was a perversion. INSANE!
To be sure, if she would have worn short shorts and had a pierce nose, than no one would have approached her.
But that’s not what I wanted to write about…
I wanted to say that because women have been mistreated by men, they think submission is a non-issue.
Let’s face it. Men don’t lead. Men who do lead usually end up abusing their priestly authority in the home, lording it over their wife to get their own demands met.
I think Perry has the right perspective on this…when men start loving their wife as Christ love;s the church,
when my start leading from example instead of leading from the recliner “urp…someone bring me more rootbeer.”
Then, women will respect them.
The challenge is to respect men in the meantime,,,
signed,
challenged in the midwest
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Well said Christopher. As a woman, I know through looking in the mirror at myself and being reminded of the many mistakes that I’ve made, it is clear that we woman are weaker willed than men. It is also been proved through history how satan uses women to decieve men, beginning with Adam & Eve. It is our ignorance and arrogance that blocks us from seeing the negative effect we have on soceity being women’s libbers; however humility and child like faith are the keys to Gods wisdom whereby He teaches us and gives us Spiritual Understanding. A book that opened my spiritual eyes (through humility) and gave me some understanding is called The Way home or face the fire http://thewayhomeorfacethefire.net
Peace be with you
Dear Vanessa, You are most welcome! It is heartening to know that you appreciate the booklet I mentioned (The Way Home or Face the Fire) and its contents. I had to read it a few times to understand it fully.
It is not pleasurable to speak the truth, about the sexes, and as God intended. This is from the barrage of accusations that women may hurl at you, but the idea is always about attaining a higher spiritual level.
One should never write or speak about men versus women type of stances. This is harmful, but if the discussion leads to where and what God wants from us, then that would be some progress.