7 Great Lies of Organized Religion – Lie #8
Where I grew up, they said: “Miracles don’t happen anymore. They ceased with the disciples.” I believed what they told me.
Dozens of personal experiences and medically documented cases have caused me to do a 180 on this. Miracles are REAL. The idea that miracles are fake is literally the 8th lie of Organized Religion. (Fake miracles masquerading as real ones are the other side of that coin, by the way… and there are many fake miracles.)
Miracles are far more common than many would have you believe. Today, I share several of my own personal experiences. And several thoroughly documented events.
Before we dig in, I need to tell you a conversation with my younger brother Bryan, whose story I tell in my book Evolution 2.0 and on my site www.cosmicfingerprints.com.
Bryan had gotten a Master’s Degree in Theology at Master’s Seminary in Southern California. Master’s is very conservative and holds a doctrinal position that miracles ceased after the disciples. He’d spent time in the ministry including a stint as a missionary. Because of mounting doubts, he was bailing on the whole thing.
He says to me:
“Perry, I’ve studied the New Testament inside and out. I’ve studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. And you know what? There is NOTHING in the Bible whatsoever to suggest that miracles should stop.
“So… WHERE’S THE MIRACLES???”
I rifle through my mental file folders. I’ve heard lots of stories 3rd hand. No personal experiences of my own to report.
(Gulp.)
He continues: “Every single supposed ‘miracle’ can be explained by sleight of hand, placebo effect, or wishful thinking. There’s no such thing as a medically documented miracle.”
He was definitely right about the New Testament part. Nowhere is there so much as a hint that the miracles were going to go away. In fact miracles are held out as proof of the authenticity of Jesus as the Son of God. From healing the paralytic to forgiving sins to feeding the 5000 to rising from the dead, all are offered as things only God can do.
I was quite concerned that he was right about the placebo effect and the wishful thinking. Made me queasy.
Felt like a sucker. A mark. Gullible.
Plus, when you turn on the TV and see the faith healers plying their trade, most of us run out of the room screaming. Educated people are way too smart for that, right?
What if all this stuff about miracles is hocus-pocus and Santa Claus? What an icky, shameful feeling.
My eyes were suddenly wide open for information that would either confirm or deny this.
For several months I was almost persuaded that he might be right.
But little by little things started happening. The evidence began to point the other way.
Experience #1: I had lunch near Cincinnati Ohio with an old co-worker named Charlie Keck. September 27, 2002. Charlie was an engineer who lived in Tipp City Ohio. His wife was named Geri, and she’d had lupus.
She’d *had* lupus. But she didn’t have it anymore.
She and Charlie had treated it for years, prayed for years that it would be healed, and it wouldn’t budge.
Then one morning at her Bible study, a woman suddenly stood up and said, “God just told me to pray for you, to be healed, RIGHT NOW.”
So they did. And Geri felt this warm sensation flushing through her abdomen and the lupus was healed. Just like that. No more doctor visits, no more treatments. The whole chronic disease, gone.
Experience #2: I got to Rajahmundry, India in June 2007 with the customer service manager at my company, Jeremy Flanagan. Jeremy, as it turns out, has been having experiences like this himself. Healing people.
At a church service one Sunday, the pastor, Isaiah Gottimukkala, invites anybody who wants any kind of healing prayer to line up in front of Jeremy. Jeremy calls me over to help him and we start prayin’ for people.
One woman, maybe 60 years old, had fallen a year ago and hurt her arm. She could not raise her elbow past the middle of her chest. When she moved her arm up and down she complained that her shoulder would crack and pop and Jeremy and I could feel that too, when we put our hands on her shoulder when she’d move it.
He started praying for her. Probably spent 15 minutes. By the time Jeremy was done both shoulders felt identical, there was no cracking and she could raise her arm above her head on her own strength.
I asked her to do it for me and I snapped a picture. She said it didn’t hurt anymore and both arms were equally good.
Another lady, Mary, maybe 30 years old, had somewhat recently had brain surgery to remove a cancerous tumor. She pulled her hair back and I could tell just brushing my hand over her head that there was a big piece of her skull taken out and a large indention on her head.
She complained that she’d been having seizures since the operation, and she has had no feeling anywhere in her left arm.
Jeremy started praying that God would heal her entire skull and put everything back. We prayed for her and prayed for her. After about a half hour her head hadn’t changed but she started feeling tingling on her skin and by the time we were done, she said she could feel everything with her left arm exactly like her right arm.
No success on her skull filling in. Not yet anyway. But she was VERY excited about the feeling come back in her left arm!
We go home, and 2 months later I email Pastor Isaiah’s brother, Ananth. I want to know if these people are “still healed.” (Or did the problems come back? It sometimes happens.) Here’s his reply:
Respected Mr. Perry Marshall,
Greetings from India!
Thank you very much for your prayers.
Your trip to India was amazing. Many were healed and increased their faith in God. They are sharing their testimony to many people. Many times they are asking about you and Mr. Jeremy for prayers. We told them that next year definitely they will come to pray for you and for many.
I would like to share the testimony of my Grand mother(My father’s mother). Her name is Mrs. Suvarthamma and her age is 75. She was suffering from severe headache and neck pain from so many years and also if she takes anything from her mouth she will be feeling pain in her throat.
After your prayers She is completely healed. She is very happy and doing all the works easily irrespecitve of her age. God did miracle in her life through your prayers.
Another women named Mrs. Mary, Her age is 30. She had operation on her head. Hair was fully sworn and the head was like smooth sponge. She used to have pain on her head daily. and also her hand is not working and she doesnt have any feeling on her hand.
After your prayers she bacame healed. She feels her hand and she can do works with that hand normally as another hand. Praise the Lord.
Every one hearing of her witness, asking us about you and requesting us to bring you back to India.
These are some of the Miracles happend because of your prayers.
My brother Pastor Isaiah and his wife Surekha and all the boys of the Rajah Boys Home and Pastors in the Deep Forest are sending their greetings to you.
Thanking you Sir,
Yours faithfully,
Ananth
I’ve told you about two people there in Rajahmundry India. There were many more – most got some benefit, some didn’t seem to get any. These are the most dramatic examples of what happened. But I’ll tell you one thing: I learned that prayer CHANGES things. Especially when administered the way the apostles always said to.
I fully understand that a lot of people reading this are very, very skeptical.
As well you should be.
After all, you weren’t there. You only have my word to go on.
Well, I forgot to bring my portable MRI machine on the plane so I could do before / after scans of all these people, and as concerns this particular event, my own eyewitness testimony is about as good as I can provide right here.
If you’ll stick with me, later in this article I’ll give you information on publicly documented miracles that you can investigate for yourself. Meanwhile I’ve got more personal experiences to share.
Todd Bentley: A crazy, controversial guy, but some of his miracles were real.
Experience #3: In the spring of 2008 a “revival” broke out in Lakeland Florida. Hugely controversial. A guy named Todd Bentley, a Canadian Harley-riding preacher guy with jeans and cowboy boots and covered with tattoos started healing people in this crazy tent meeting.
It grew and grew until 5,000 to 10,000 people were showing up every single night. This went on until August 2008. The whole thing caved in when Bentley was found to be having an affair with one of his staff members.
(Hey, I told you this thing was controversial. Wait, there’s more…)
I jumped on a plane and flew there to see the whole thing for myself. I was there May 27, 2008.
On the hotel shuttle bus to the meeting I met a woman from Hong Kong who had flown to London to pick up her daughter, a college student who had severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The daughter was skinny as a rail and looked like the walking dead. They were there to get healing.
I get there and the whole place is a freaking nuthouse. Loud music, crazy people dancing and singing, and rolling around on the floor. This Todd Bentley guy is marching around the stage, shouting, kicking people, slapping them, proclaiming them healed.
Across the stage the people go. Bentley is yelling all kinds of proclamations. At one point he stops and says:
“I’m telling you right now, somebody in here has been deaf in one ear for 34 years. Who is that? Thirty-four years deaf. The Lord just spoke to me. Come up here.”
I’m in the center section near the back. About 20 feet from me, over my shoulder and to the right, a guy raises his hand. “That’s me. I went deaf from a gunshot 34 years ago today.”
Bentley prays for him and he’s healed, instantly. You can watch this in this video:
The man’s name was Brian Burgee. He’s pastor of Rock Church of Tampa Bay.
Brian’s story was reported in the Charlotte Observer on June 19, 2008. You can read it here.
I met Charles Chandler, the reporter who wrote it. We have a mutual friend who lives in North Carolina. Chandler followed up with the people described in the article personally and checked their stories.
I was there that night. I saw it happen with my own two eyes.
This article is referenced on Wikipedia. My neighbor is the editor in charge of the Todd Bentley page on Wikipedia. The healings in Lakeland were such a hot potato, most of the mainstream media wouldn’t touch it.
When people are really getting healed and things are happening that the establishment claims are impossible, mostly what you get is silence. Or irrational protests from people who still insist it’s impossible.
(Not all that different from atheists trying to tell me DNA isn’t actually a code.)
Jeronimo and Noemia Cessito, Beira, Mozambique
Experience #4: I have a friend named Noemia Cessito. She and her husband Jeronimo run a school, church, AIDS hospice, medical clinic and feeding program in Beira, Mozambique. I went to visit them in the summer of 2003.
Mozambique is extremely poor. Luxuries that westerners take for granted are simply unheard of there.
Noemia tells this strange story:
When I arrived in Mozambique in 1984, the country was in the middle of a 15 year civil war. It was a hard time. A lot of people were dying not just from the fighting but from starvation.
One evening our church met for prayer. People started to pray for things like shoes, a chair, a shirt, a loaf of bread. I never heard anyone pray for a pair of shoes or a loaf of bread before. I had always prayed: “Lord, please provide for my needs.”
So, I was sitting beside this little six year old girl and we divided into pairs to pray. That little girl began to pray, “Oh God, give shoes to my brother, Carlos. Oh, God, give some some bread to my sister Maria. And I said “Amen” to each of her requests.
Later at home, I got down on my knees to pray some more and when I was kneeling, I was trying to pray for the war because I had heard about a terrible battle on the Zamebezi river.
In the middle of thinking about that, I got this desire for some ice cream. I thought, “Good Lord! How could I possibly think about ice cream now when there is so much war and starvation?” But yet, deep in my heart, I heard a voice saying, “Ask for some ice cream from God.”
I ignored the thought. How could I possibly ask for ice cream when so many people are starving and are in so much need? I continued to pray. But my mouth started to water because I so wanted to have some ice cream. And then I began to cry. I didn’t have the courage to say, “God, please give me some ice cream.” I knew that I could, but I didn’t have the courage.
But, then at the end of my prayer, I said to God, “God, I would sure love to taste some ice cream.” And then, I cried some more. I thought, how selfish can I be! There are so many suffering and starving. I was crying because I was homesick for Brazil, and I so wanted a taste of ice cream.
About noon the next day a truck from Zimbabwe drove up to the door where I was staying and the driver got out and knocked. He wanted someone named, Naomi. I didn’t understand English at that time but he kept saying Naomi, Naomi and I finally realized that Naomi must be my name in English.
So I took the package and when I touched it my heart froze. I knew right away what it was because the box was cold.
So I asked the driver, “Who sent this? Where did it come from?” He didn’t understand me but finally through gestures I got out of him that someone at the airport gave him that box to deliver to “Naomi.” It had been flown in on a plane from South Africa. To this day I have no idea who sent it or where it came from.
Well, I put that little carton of ice cream in the freezer of the refrigerator with a sense of overwhelming gratitude. It was then that I began to understand that I can ask from God even the most insignificant things.
Since then I’ve faced a lot of hard times. I’ve nearly died of malaria, and I’ve gone hungry. But, as the many difficulties arose, I would remember that carton of ice cream. It’s the biggest lesson of my life.
Experience #5: I’ve got a friend named Jess Smiley. She and her husband Sam live about 2 miles from my house. We go to church together.
Jess feels the sorrow, but sings anyway
The last 7 years have been HARD on Jess.
7 years ago her husband Jamie contracted leukemia, a form that is lethal. After a 2 year battle she lost him.
In the fall of 2007 her son Alex was 11 years old. He had started developing bruises on his skin and a doctor’s appointment revealed that he too had leukemia.
Wow. An 11 year old boy with leukemia. Imagine facing that.
Alex went through 9 months of brutal chemotherapy treatments and it went into remission.
18 months later, it came back. With a vengeance.
More chemotherapy. More prayers. More desperation.
Alex chose to stand up and FIGHT.
Since Alex was losing his hair, several of his friends, including Dylan Fancher, all decided to shave their heads as a sign of Solidarity with Alex during his healing and recovery process.
Below is a video of Alex shaving Dylan’s head in the restroom of Alex’s hospital room:
Alex Smiley shaves Dylan Fancher’s head: Solidarity, and Friends Forever
Just the day before, Alex had begun his Chemo treatments. (The joy of shaving Dylan’s head sorta made up for the first day of chemo.)
That was July 6, 2009.
On Wednesday, October 14, 2009, an infection raged out of control and Alex died. A young man full of promise, gone at age 13.
Jess had remarried since Jamie’s death. She lost both her husband and first-born son to leukemia.
She made it through Alex’s funeral under the care of friends, lots of prayer and a couple pints of vodka.
Words cannot express how grieved we all were. We all prayed so hard. For Alex to be healed. For this curse to be lifted. But Alex lost the battle. For whatever reason, rescue did not come.
Jess soldiered on.
It just so happens that we were with Jess at a church conference in Toronto. On the night of January 20, 2010, God SPOKE to Jess and in a moment of laser clarity, showing her that He was pushing a “reset” button on the destiny she thought she had lost. He was restoring to her what she thought was no more.
That night God also gave her an impartation of JOY and LAUGHTER.
The bitterness and the grief melted away and she began laughing with delight. For weeks she was almost giddy and exuberant.
It was like nothing I had ever seen.
All I can say is, you had to see it for yourself to fully appreciate it. I’ve told you some miracle stories. People getting healed of lupus, deafness and paralysis are all remarkable. But being healed from aching loss and sickening sorrow over a lost husband and dear son – that one takes the cake.
It’s not that she doesn’t miss Alex or Jamie. Or that she doesn’t still grieve. It’s just that the bitter sting has been taken out. Jess experienced a literal impartation of the beautiful scripture of Isaiah 61:
For those who grieve in Zion— to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair. They will be called oaks of righteousness, a planting of the LORD for the display of his splendor.
They will rebuild the ancient ruins and restore the places long devastated; they will renew the ruined cities that have been devastated for generations.
My friend, I do not know why Alex and her husband were taken from us. God alone knows the answer to that question.
But God did minister to her in her sorrow in a most profound way.
YOU have also lost loved ones.
YOU have also had unanswered prayers. We all have. I know the feeling of exasperation and desperation when you pray and it feels as though those prayers are bouncing off the ceiling.
Jess Smiley knows that feeling too. Believe me, she does.
You pray for the uncle or aunt or grandpa or child. Your prayer doesn’t get answered the way you want it to. It’s bitter and dark.
But you know what…
You only have to experience ONE undeniable miracle and then you KNOW. After that, there is no going back.
And that’s what happened to me. I’ve only shared a small collection of stories. There are others. They’re real and I’ve seen them with my own two eyes.
Experience #6: 0n April 17, 2012, I was at a conference in Moravian Falls, North Carolina, sitting right next to a woman named Dierdre from Sydney Australia when she was healed after 40 years of severe hearing loss in one ear. Here’s me interviewing her about what happened:
Remember Brian Burgee from Tampa Florida, above, who was deaf in one ear and was healed in 2008? With the Dierdre experience I have now seen TWO people who were healed from deafness in one ear, both from childhood accidents, both deaf in that ear for more than 30 years. I was a personal direct witness and I have both testimonies on video. Recall that Burgee’s healing was also verified by reporter from the Charlotte Observer.
I solemnly attest to you that all these people and experiences are true and I have reported them to the best of my ability.
I will never again be at the mercy of theories from someone who thinks miracles are fake. Cuz I know they’re real.
But they are my experiences not yours.
Do you want God to show up in your life?
Then right now I give you permission to ASK HIM. If you seek God you will find Him.
But there’s something else I wish to offer you as well.
And that is:
Documented evidence of other miracles.
1. The book “Real Miracles” by Richard Casdorph, M.D., medically documents 10 miracles. Each chapter is a case study of one miracle, including doctors reports, xrays, etc. It reports ailments like huge tumors, Multiple Sclerosis and cancer vanishing completely, with medical documentation.
If you’re the least bit curious about this, just go ahead and buy the book. It’s on Amazon.
2. In Catholic circles, the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima on October 13, 1917 is very well known and has been exhaustively documented. Literally 70,000 people including all kinds of newspaper reporters and people of every age and background testified to what happened near Fatima, Portugal. The event was predicted in advance on July 13, August 19 and September 13 that same year by three children. Which is why thousands of people were there to witness it.
Wikipedia does a good job of summarizing what happened. (Yes, I understand, if you’re a protestant you probably don’t relate to the “Virgin Mary” stuff. That’s OK. There’s no rule that says you have to.) I encourage you to study the event for yourself and see if there isn’t substantial evidence that something miraculous occurred.
3. In September 2010, the Southern Medical Journal published an article titled: Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Proximal Intercessory Prayer (STEPP) on Auditory and Visual Impairments in Rural Mozambique. The official publication can be found here and the original authored manuscript from Indiana University can be found here. 24 people were tested; hearing of deaf subjects improved by 10-60 decibels. Vision of some of the blind subjects also improved, ranging from none to 15X.
I am personally only 1 degree of separation from the healers involved in this study. Here in Chicago I have some friends Nathan and Liz Stanton. They were married in Mozambique by pastor Heidi Baker who is a missionary there. For the Southern Medical Journal research, Heidi Baker partnered with Global Awakening in Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania, who sent a teaching team to my own church not long ago.
Heidi Baker is well-known in Mozambique for going into villages, asking villagers to bring her their deaf, then healing them. At minute 5:56 you’ll see Heidi Baker heal a deaf woman in front of a large crowd of people, live:
This video is an excerpt from the movie Finger of God. by Darren Wilson. He’s the narrator of this documentary. I’m personally acquainted with him, having met him in November 2009. Darren himself was ardently against miracles until a relative experienced a miracle he could not explain, which launched him on a journey of investigation.
4. On Friday August 30 2010, Delia Knox was healed after two decades of paralysis. She stood up in her wheelchair in the Mobile Alabama Convention Center and walked around the room in the presence of thousands of eyewitnesses.
The following report appeared in the Mobile Alabama Press-Register, September 2, 2010:
MOBILE, Alabama — On Christmas Day 1987 singer and evangelist Delia Knox lost the use of her legs after a car she was a passenger in was struck by another vehicle driven by a drunken driver.
Now, on a video made last Friday, Knox is seen walking for the first time in 22 years during a revival at the Arthur R. Outlaw Mobile Convention Center.
The video, which is on YouTube and on the site of the Mobile church run by Knox and her husband, Levy Knox, is said to be a testament to not one, but numerous miracles said to have taken place during the Bay of the Holy Spirit Revival.
You can watch the YouTube video of the live healing taking place here:
On Thursday October 21, 2010, Delia Knox returned to her home town of Buffalo, New York and into her mother’s arms. The local TV station WIVB Channel 4 taped the homecoming and reported the healing:
Delia Knox and her husband Levy, next to her wheelchair
Finally there are some things that need to be said about miracles. Quoting 1 Corinthians 12:28:
“And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
“Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts.”
If you’re a Christian, I challenge you with this:
Much of the church has been actively disobeying this. These verses clearly present a hierarchy of authority and gifts:
1. Apostles
2. Prophets
3. Teachers
4. Workers of Miracles
5. Healers
6. Helpers
7. Administrators
8. Those who speak in tongues
The protestant church has amputated #1, #2, #4, #5 and #8. The teachers and administrators have been left in charge.
Paul said to desire the greater gifts.
I know pastors and seminary professors who’ve been fired from their jobs because they believed in miracles. How tragic and anti-Christian that is. I have a friend who had severe ADHD and was deaf in one ear. He was healed of both at once in May 2007. He won’t let me use his name and picture here on my blog because his father is a prominent figure in evangelical Christianity and news of a miracles might threaten his dad’s career.
And we wonder why the church is anemic??? We wonder why there’s an atheistic bias in the western world? It’s no surprise church has become a flaccid, legalistic, boring institution. A dreary way to kill an otherwise enjoyable Sunday morning.
It’s because 5 out of the 8 spark plugs have been yanked out. The engine is coughing and sputtering on 3 of its 8 cylinders.
Why are “Cessationist” arguments invariably so complex and insert all kinds of assumptions which themselves have no scriptural support?
MANY Christians say to me, “Absolutely I believe God still heals. God can do anything He wants to. God just does it whenever he chooses to now. He doesn’t heal through healers.”
If that’s you, I’ve got a question for you:
Can you show me ONE place in scripture – Old or New Testament – where ANY person was healed without a healer?
The church has sliced off one of its testicles and thrown it in the garbage. No wonder it doesn’t feel like a man.
This is one of the reasons that TV healing ministries have become such a circus: it’s partly because most of Christianity has marginalized the healing gifts. This is why some healers are charlatans. But it’s a whole different world when you see people whom you’ve known for years get healed in person, with your own eyes – not on TV. When you experience it for yourself, like I have.
When the church begins to operate on all 8 cylinders, it becomes a force to be reckoned with. As all my friends who’ve been healed will attest. The atheists and cynics and religious gestapo can whine and moan all they want to, but real people are being set free every day.
(Oh, and I haven’t said a single word about the awesome power of prophetic people. I’ll save that discussion for another post.)
In Matthew 11, Jesus’ cousin John the Baptist was in prison. He was depressed and discouraged. Nothing was going the way he’d planned. He had grave doubts because his prayers weren’t being answered.
John sent a message to Jesus.
When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, “Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?”
Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me.”
Amen.
Perry Marshall
P.S.: There’s a popular atheist jingoism these days: “Why doesn’t God heal amputees?” It’s often stated with spitting anger and venom. The assertion is made that there’s no such thing as an amputee whose arm grew back. This held up as proof positive that miracles don’t exist.
To date I haven’t personally met an amputee whose arm has grown back. Today I told you what I have seen. The closest I’ve come is my friend Yosef Bender from Chicago. Yosef was at a Kathryn Kuhlman healing service many years ago. (Casdorph’s book “Real Miracles” investigates 10 of Ms. Kuhlman’s healing incidents.) Behind Yosef was a woman who had one arm that was too short with a single finger at the end instead of a hand.
From the stage, Kuhlman called out that there was someone up in that section whose arm was deformed. A few seconds later, Yosef heard this intense commotion and loud crying behind him. He turned around and this woman’s hand had fully grown back. She was so happy she was crying hysterically.
This is as close as I’ve personally gotten to a healed amputee.
Documented histories of healed amputees do exist. The Miracle of Calanda occurred in Calanda, Spain in 1640, according to 17th century documents. The documents state that a young farmer’s leg was restored to him after having been amputated two and a half years earlier. This event is described in detail in the book Il Miracolo by Vittorio Messori. This is described in detail on Wikipedia.
I rather suspect there are at least a few healed amputees out there. Will the skeptics listen to their stories? I don’t know. Will they change the skeptics’ minds? I don’t know. But if you want to think for yourself investigate these things on your own, I recommend that you start by reading “Real Miracles” by Richard Casdorph, M.D.
Brother, I love you, hoping that you will find out the truth, with the leading of the Holy Spirit.
I’ve done what you said: reading some of his sermons, the description of him.
So, what I saw is just confirming what I thought. Anyway, do not think that I am a closed minded person, I am ready to explore, especially the kingdom of God.
Something I didn’t say before: This prophet never prophesied good thing, just bad, destruction, without any hope in how God will save those who repent. But the prophecy I see in the bible says that those bad thing will come if and only if you do not repent. You always have chance to repent with God.
Actually, this blog won’t be enough to speak just about W. Branham, and it will be even an other subject than the theme (miracle ceased or not), but you still can contact me.
My suggestion is, as I did: as you explore in the agree-er’s information, explore in the same way in the non-agree-er’s information also.
Last: look at Christ, not anyone else, and be the soldier of Christ, not anyone else.
Be blessed.
Ummm…. all you have done is post a bunch of anecdotal stories up. If you know anything about Science then you should realise that anecdotal evidence is the weakest form of evidence there is.
Why don’t you, or some other people who believe in miricles happen, conduct a properly controlled scientific experiment on the subject to provide conclusive evidence that miricles do work?
The Bible sets a precedent for this sort of thing. The prophet Daniel conducted an experiment at one stage on which diet is best. Moses conducted a couple of tests against the Pharoah’s priests to show which deity is greatest. So therefore you should be able to devise and carry out a pretty good and robust scientific test on this. In fact I believe someone may have attempted to do so in the past.
This is easy for me to say because I have witnessed miracles and healings that doctors cannot explain. I have no excuse for a lack of faith because I have seen and, because of this, I am accountable for speaking, or not.
One who believes that humans can conduct a “controled scientific experiment” to determine if miracles are real is misled. The One who performs the actual miracle would be God, not the person who is the conduit. God is not some mindless energy field, like electricity. He is an omnipotent, omniscient intelligent being. What experiment conceived by the created could possibly “control” the Creator?
Such experiments have been performed by the late John G. Lake. Highly infectious bacteria would die in his hands.
This is interesting. I tried to locate information about John G. Lake and experiments with infections bacteria but didn’t find anything on this topic. If a web link could be provided that would be great. Thanks.
Why won’t God heal amputees?
How do you know he doesn’t?
What a pointless question. How do you know that unicorns don’t have purple hair? I don’t even know anyone who would pray for an amputee to regrow a limb because we all know that it doesn’t happen.
Prayer is a way for religious people to feel like they’re helping while doing nothing at all. If prayer worked, it would be obvious.
I find it crazy that some people believe that God answers their prayers for stupid things like an A on an exam, while millions of children are starving to death. Think of the young girl who was locked in a basement and repeatedly raped by her father for 24 years. Imagine how much she must have prayed.
Prayer has been scientifically studied and was found to have absolutely no effect.
Troy, you clearly have not read the article above or read any of the reference material. After you have read, for example, Casdorph’s book, you may be forced to re-think your conclusion that prayer has been found to have no effect. If you refuse to read the available research, however, I cannot help you.
I suddenly have a taste for some ice cream. Faith is a quantum mechanical force. We cannot even explain the existence of mass and you think we can put God in a box? You think gravity doesn’t exist because we can’t produce it’s particle? I give praise and thanks to God. I often wonder how he can put up with me.
Troy,
I, too, harbored doubts on God hearing prayers. But when he answered a prayer which I did not mouth but just kept inside my mind and heart, I believe God answers prayers.
You see, I resigned from my former job in 2002 and went back home working in the farm. But there was not much money in the farm to keep my dignity intact. Teaching in a state college did not help me regain my self worth. I went back to the city in 2007. I searched the internet for jobs but none responded to my applications. I was 57 years old then, too old to land in a job. As catholics, we venerate the image of the Infant Jesus. One day in 2008, I washed the dirty clothes of two statues of the Child Jesus left by my sister in law in a shack. My wife jokingly told me, you will receive a reward from God. Two weeks later, a high paying job came looking for me. I’m permanent in this job and may retire only when I reach 65.
I beieve it is an answer to an unsaid prayer.
constantino
Touche.
I personally find it amusing when folks pontificate with notions of “everyone” and “no one”. Who has the time to interview everyone?
Thus far I have found one well-documented instance of an amputee being healed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Calanda
Dear Perry,
I pray that everyone on this forum thoroughly reads this “attestation” regarding the amputee in the Light of The Word of God.
For those who do not wish to, please allow me to highlight some quotes from this site:
“He then decided to leave for Zaragoza in order to receive treatment in the hospital dedicated to Our Lady of the Pillar (Madonna del Pilar) to whom he had great devotion.”…
“He told them that he had dreamt of being within the Sanctuary of Our Lady of the Pillar and rubbing his leg with the holy oil, as he had done so often. Soon all three agreed that the restoration of the leg was due to the intercession of the Virgin of the Pillar.”
Isn’t this “Virgin of the Pillar” the same as “Mary” who is the Queen of Heaven” (no lying to me now!)
As with the Apostle Paul, the righteous anger that wells up in me on this compels me to say to you that if you do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, then I am finished with you and go to others who ARE valiant for the Truth.
Thus saith the LORD Yahweh: “The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead [their] dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.” – Nothing new under the sun. “That which has been will be again and that which has been done, will be done again.” (Jeremiah 7:18)
The end of the matter is this. Of COURSE miracles did not cease with the disciples, but PLEASE stop being so gullible as to think that they all come from the Living God – the True/Genuine Lord Jesus Christ.
I have shown you here that there is a FALSE jesus, a DIFFERENT spirit and a DIFFERENT gospel (from 2Cor 11:2-5) and that the True Jesus Christ comes “In My Father’s name yet you receive Me not. If one comes in his OWN name, him you will receive.”
Secondly, as in the days of Moses and Pharaoh, the priests of Pharaoh were quite capable of COPYING Moses’ miracles, this trend following us right up the to book of Revelation, when we are told that it is the BEAST (who forces the Mark 666)who performs all kinds of COUNTERFEIT signs and wonders so as to deceive if possible, even the very elect.
The weight of evidence is SO overpowering AGAINST this abomination of Catholicism/false Christianity, that to continue in this teaching is to not only fly in the face of God, but to tell HIM what is true and false, thus calling Him a liar.
The whole purpose of this is summed up in Deuteronomy 13:1-3
“If there arise among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them: Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD (Yahweh) your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD (Yahweh)your God with all your heart and with all your soul.”
This is the God you will be facing at the Judgment and this is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ and NOWHERE in Scripture, either Old or New Testament, are we instructed to worship/follow/adore/entreat …the QUEEN OF HEAVEN. If this goddess worship is in keeping then with the teaching of Christ, PLEASE enlighten me from the Word of God – The Word of Truth, otherwise, you have just one lifetime to connect the dots, repent and secure your eternal destiny.
If you are wanting this on your record a the Judgment, then the Scripture is sadly true, “They won’t believe even if One from the dead should rise.”
And if you consider this being argumentative and causing divisions, then it would appear that a person’s eternal life or destruction is of no particular importance and you have completely missed what Jesus was really all about. If our eternal welfare was not all that big a deal, then it would appear that Jesus overreacted somewhat doesn’t it?
When you have lost everything you own, have been lied to and hated by your closest friends and family, when you have shed your own blood, sweat and tears for the sake of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Truth, THEN come to me and claim that you are an authority on what salvation is. Then I may believe you have a case.
“If you were blind you would have excuse for your sins, but since you claim to be able to see, you have no cloak for your sins.”
“As for me and my household we will serve the LORD (Yahweh)”
“This is eternal life. To have (an experiential)knowledge of the You, the One True God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent.”
http://www.timetogetready.net/immaculatedeception/immaculatedeception.pdf
Anna,
I am not Catholic and I think the Catholic church goes too far with the whole Mary thing. However Catholics do not worship Mary. I agree with you, we are not invited to worship, adore or entreat Mary, so far as I know. Is it permissible to ask saints to intercede for us? I don’t know. I don’t personally have a big objection to it.
In any case, given that the Catholic Church does worship Jesus Christ as God, as member of the trinity and savior who died for our sins, and given that Jesus did have a human mother, I would be EXTREMELY careful about judging this miracle as being counterfeit. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a serious matter.
I believe it’s the Holy Ghost you refer to Perry my friend;
Luk 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall NOT be forgiven.
I believe there is a difference in Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. Please correct me if I err my friend. However, what does matter that most people don’t grasp is, “Christianity is purely “Spiritual”, having nothing to do with the flesh, but only our “Spirits”. Our spirits are “Taught by that Holy Ghost”; Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 20:22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
And He has been Faithfully doing this for us every since Amen!
May all of you here; “Receive ye the Holy Ghost:”
Thank You Lord Jesus!
I don’t make any distinction between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost.
Perry here you are absolutely right (according to my understanding of scripture?)
No matter if we say: Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost, Spirit of God, Comforter, Spirit of the Lord, (rivers of living water.(john 7 38:39))Spirit of holiness, the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead, Spirit of adoption, eternal Spirit. etc – scripture says there is one Spirit – these names are/must all be the same – God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship In Spirit and in truth It would seem to me to be more productive to ask “How do we identify we have received the Spirit” rather than: Is God “multiple” Spirit
Thank your Perry, for the effort and research that you have put in. I find it very useful.
Yeah, as it is said: Holy Spirit is Holy Ghost. (Since you asked for correction in case of)
Hi Perry, Thanks for the many wonderful testimonies. There is a distinction between the “Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit” which is purely theological and kept due to church tradition. The Holy Ghost is supposedly to have proceeded from Jesus perhaps after his death on the cross. This matter caused a major split in the early Church.
Richard> What exactly is this supposed distinction? Where is the scriptural support for this statement? I read “for there is one Spirit” Are you saying there are two? I get called mike, mick, sandy, dusty pup, gritty girl, hey you,and other nicknames, etc, This does not mean i am a different person in each case, or that there is any “distinction” present. Perry is right!
Dear Perry, there is nothing more I can say, “let him who is filthy be filthy still and let him who is holy be holy still.”
You know, there is an intersting discourse in John 8 between Jesus and “Jews who believed in Him” and in verse 31, as the discourse unfolds, Jesus finds out their true hearts and intentions and concludes that their father is the devil and that they were about doing their father’s work.
John the Baptist called those who were coming to him to be baptised a “brood of vipers”
Their Holy Spirit (which Darrell IS the Holy Ghost) had no trouble discerning the hypocrites and liars that were trying to fool God by their pious acts.
Even the apostle Paul cast a DEMON out of a woman who had a spirit of divination even though, she would run behind Paul and his associates trumpeting, “These are men of the most High God sent to show us the way of salvation.” THIS WAS NOT the Holy Spirit speaking through her, but a demon. “You believe God is one. You do well. For even the demons believe and tremble.”
Perry, I hate to say this, but you are still in kindergarten, if you see nothing wrong with what the Catholics are doing with Mary.
It is a ridiculous argument to say that we can pray to the saints on our behalf, that you see nothing wrong with this. For one, the genuine saints that the New Testament is talking about are NOT dead catholics who have been “canonised”. If you read Scripture, you will find that the saints are the LIVING BELIEVERS (on the earth, in the flesh) of the Lord Jesus Christ. Why does it say, “Why do you seek the living among the dead”? This is STRICTLY forbidden by Yahweh.
Your comments regarding this show an apalling lack of knowledge of God’s Word and it is written “My people perish through lack of knowledge.”
As far as Catholics not worshipping Mary goes. This is very dishonest, bordering on a lie. (supposing that you don’t REALLY know what you are talking about here)
I challenge you to go to the Vatican go to your local Catholic Church and do a little study of what the Pope TEACHES his “faithful” about Mary. The previous Pope dedicated the whole world to HER. NOT Jesus.
Apparently you have not even considered the Scripture about the other Jesus, different Gospel and different spirit. By the grace of my beautiful Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ – Yahweh is Salvation – I am no longer intimidated by such uniformed warnings about blaspheming the Holy Spirit. You see, Yahshua (Jesus Christ) has given me a love of the Truth and the Spirit of Truth with which to discern Truth from error. And this threat is satan’s FAVOURITE AND MOST EFFECTIVE fear tactic shed over the Church to stop anyone EVER DARING to question or investigate anything that is happening in Jesus’ name. He can now perform all the blasphemy and filthiness under heaven and get away with it, simply because he says it is the Holy Spirit doing it. I Sorry, but not fooled. And Yahshua is not fooled either. “Stop judging by outward appearances and make a right judgment”
Dear Anna, I was reading a lot of your comments. And I see two or three things. By the love that made Jesus Christ die for me and you, let me have a word.
I wanted to do this for a long time, but maybe it wasn’t the right time.
Anyway,
– as how you look the others, look at yourself first. (Matt. 7:3).
You said: “Your comments reflect an appalling lack of knowledge of the Word of God”, how about yours? full? Are you sure?
– I usually say to the brethren in Christ, if you know something, or able of doing something, praise the Lord, but don’t say that the others are less than you. As you do here: “you are still in kindergarten concerning the things of God.”. Why? because, you don’t know them; you don’t know the blessings that they got, but you don’t.
– Paul says:”For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you… But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.”, and he refers his strength as foolishness (2Cor. 11: 21-23). But we should boast on one thing:”If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.”
– you could be right for some things but I don’t think that Jesus will speak a such way
Dear Anna, I was reading a lot of your comments. And I see two or three things.
You said: “When will you grow up in the Lord and realize that…?”. So, if you don’t need to grow up in the Lord (because it seems like only brother Perry needs so) then no need to continue reading, but if you are growing, like us, then finish the reading.
By the love that made Jesus Christ die for me and you, let me have a word.
I wanted to do this for a long time, but maybe it wasn’t the right time.
Anyway,
– as how you look the others, look at yourself first. (Matt. 7:3). You said: “Your comments reflect an appalling lack of knowledge of the Word of God”, how about yours? full? Are you sure?
– I usually say to the brethren in Christ, if you know something, or able doing something, praise the Lord, but don’t say that the others are less than you. As you do here: “you are still in kindergarten concerning the things of God.”. Why? because, you don’t know them; you don’t know the blessings that they got but you don’t.
– Paul says:”For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you… But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.”, and he refers his strength as foolishness (2Cor. 11: 21-23). But we should boast on one thing:”If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.”
– you could be right for some things, like worshiping anyone else than Jesus The Savior, asserting that you really KNOW NOT JUST THINK that they, ALL OF THEM do so, but you forget a very important things (as far as I understand you well):
* what gives you eternal life(John 3:16)? Not the belief to Jesus? The Catholic people believe so too!
* who was dead for you, from whom will you get the salvation?(Rom. 5:8) Not Jesus? (The Catholic think so to)
* who is the true God? isn’t it the Holy Trinity that the Catholic church believe too?
* who is born of God (1John 5:1)? isn’t it “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ”? isn’t that mean that they too are born of God, meaning, that they are our brother, and James, says, 4:11 “Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.”
* …. I have a countless question/answer concluding that they are children of God. Just like me, who is not Catholic.
Mark 9:38-40 “And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.”
– About the Marry thing, I humble myself and say (I hope you do so my sister):
* why it wasn’t me the mother of Jesus (of course not, I am a man ;-) ), or my mother, or even you, but Marry?
* God wasn’t ashamed to be called “the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.”, and he is proud that Jesus will be the descendant of David (Rev. 5:5), how much more is it for God, who knows everyone, and knows the best one , glad to choose Marry to be the mother of Jesus, our God, our Savior (Luke 1: 30)?
* And it doesn’t end there: John 19:26 says “When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!”. I don’t know you, but for me, Jesus loves me and he himself asks me to take Mary as my mother.
* and if Jesus is my brother, as God born me through the death and resurrection of Jesus with the baptism, then Mary is my mother too. And if it is right, then 4th commandments asks me to honor her as my mother.
– I don’t say that the Holy Spirit is not in you, I even say the opposite, but 18 years doesn’t mean anything with spirituality, I have more than that, but I boast about the fact that I am still learning, and still have a lot to know about God.
– Anyway, there was a time that I had the same feeling as yours, struggling to fight against what I think right and wrong, just like what Paul, when his name was Saul, was doing
by fighting against the church of Christ. Until God made me understand that I was not really right. My idea was not that wrong but there was no love in me, and I was hypocrite like how Jesus described the pharisees.
– Last but not least, as you are still reading until now, meaning that you are still learning, and the Holy Spirit is not done with your lesson by giving you more and more. What you knew was a tutor (Gal. 4) for you to be ready for the knowledge of the kingdom of Christ. (Luke 8:10)
“Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.”
Dear Toky,
Thank you for your rather long reply.
I never said I know EVERYTHING, but what I DO know, I know for
sure. The above included. Why do you not address what has
been written above? Are these points false or invalid, I ask?
Perry is the creator of this forum and claims to have a great
deal of knowledge, yet, the reason I exhort him to “grow up” is
exactly that reason. There are MANY things that he either
ignores in Scripture or does not know yet, in which case, both you and he would be wise to listen to someone who knows something you do not yet. We ARE expected to grow to maturity in
the Lord and no longer be blown about by every wind of
doctrine.
If “Mary” is your mother, then you ARE Catholic, regardless
of what you say and have completely misunderstood what Jesus
was saying regarding Mary and John at the Cross. If on the
other hand, I was to tell you that I (Anna)am your mother, I
wonder what your response would be.
Yes, Catholics DO “believe” in a “Jesus”, but he is the
false one spoken of in 2Cor11:2-4. This will neither do them
any good or any who follow him(her)
I am not puting forth anything that the Apostles or even Jesus
(Yahshua)did not know, or spoke about. It is the “Church”
today, that is in gross error. You may not know them yet,
but there are more and more of us waking up to the monstrous
deception that is going in in Jesus’ name, and more than
you think who see things like I do.
And no, the Catholics are wrong again. God is not three,
for He tells us Himself “I the LORD your God am one”
It is written, “One Lord, One faith, one baptism for the
forgiveness of sins”
And eternal life? “This is eternal life, that they may know
You the One True God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent”
Jesus(Yahshua) claiming, “I come in My Father’s name.” He also
says, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me
but in Him Who sent Me.”Do you know the Father?
By the way, I am not fighting agains the Church of Christ, but
against Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots.
What made you go soft on fighting the Good fight and fall
for the goddess??
Anna,
I’ve got everything clear now when you say “God is not three” even if I didn’t say so. Actually my very word was: ‘who is the true God? isn’t it the Holy Trinity….?’ but you are so scared to deny the Holy Trinity.
So if I am right thinking that you are denying the Holy Trinity of God, that I, Perry, and the Christian Church believe then there is no difference between you and the Muslim, not at all. I hope I am wrong thinking that you deny God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, not three Gods but one.
Anyway I’ve met people who chose to believe what they understand and not believe what they don’t understand about God. They create, imagine a god that is suitable with their logical thinking (Just like the problem of science vs. Christianity) by taking into consideration what they think logical for God, and leaving aside what they can’t understand. Forgetting that our mind doesn’t have anything to do with our salvation; we are saved with one thing, and only one thing: the faith in Jesus Christ, true human being and true God. (John 3:16) Some think: Jesus is a man, no more, no less. Some think: Jesus is God, no more, no less.
All the followings stand only if you deny the Trinity:
– God, our Creator told us who He is, it is NOT we the creator to tell him what should He be. If you don’t think so, then there is no difference between you and the image, or idol worshiper.
– You don’t have to understand God, you have to believe Him. If you want to understand, be an atheist, or make one for yourself, suitable for your needs.
– Jesus himself didn’t deny when the Jews accused Him saying that He is God. So who are you dare saying that He is not God !!!??
* John 5:18 “For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.”,
* John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.””,
* -> do you really think that if Jesus is not God, and He didn’t reply saying: “no! no! no! no! guys, I didn’t say that, you misunderstood me, I didn’t say that I am God, I am just a man!” or something like that, then God won’t just take his life instantly !?
Or are you greater than Paul saying to the Philipians: “2:6 Who (Jesus), being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,”
(If you want to tell me that my bible version is wrong, then just go behind me Satan !!!)
This blog is not for that subject, so I won’t discuss about that matter anymore, I told you the right, it’s up to you now. May the Holy Spirit won’t give up with you. (Matt. 12:31)
My ‘sister’ (I say ‘sister’ because I still hope that you believe the Trinity of God), believe me or not, having PHD on theology is possible for an atheist: I mean, you know a lot of the bible, but you miss the key point of the salvation.
You said that you’ve met Yahshua, I think you are right, you didn’t meet my Jesus Christ, my Lord God, my Savior. You just meet the Liar one. (2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.)
Peace (Matt. 10:12-15 And when ye come into an house, salute it. And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.)
Oh Toky, I sigh over your reply here. “By your words you shall
be condemned and by your words you shall be acquitted.”
Are you really sure that you wish to cleave to this myth you
have that the Jesus (Yahshua)I follow is the “Liar one”?
This Yahshua means “Yahweh is Salvation” because He is.
He says, “I Am the Saviour and besides me there is no other.”
That is why Jesus says, “I come in My Father’s name and you
receive Me not. If one comes in his own name, him you will
receive.” and “Whoever believes in Me DOES NOT believe in Me
BUT IN HIM WHO SENT ME.”
Who sent your Jesus Toky? The Queen of Heaven by any chance?
And which gospel do you believe in? The one that is uniting
all denominations/churches/beliefs and bringing “World Peace”?
And which Spirit? The one who promotes idol worship/drunkenness
and prosperity?
If you refuse to answer any issues here, then would you please
be so kind as to tell me just one thing. Please. How do you
know that Jesus is the Christ?
Anna,
You left the key point not clear: Do you believe the Holy Trinity or not?
Be simple.
If you believe: then it will worth it to write for you.
If not: sorry, I have a lot of chinese arround, they need to know Jesus the Savior.
I am trying to reply to your last message to me about the Trinity, but for some reason there is no “reply” button.
So I shall use this one.
I am not afraid of the Truth but am VERY “afraid” of the LIES and have nothing to hide. So, you can have what you are looking for here. Brush the dust off your feet if you must.
And you still did not say how you know that Jesus is the Christ, not having answered any questions or queries re your religion.
Oh Toky, had you read HALF of what I am speaking of you would know Whom I worship.
The Jesus I follow is called, Yahshua which means “Yahweh is Salvation”
“For there is ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism for the forgiveness of sins”
Yahweh even tells us “I the LORD am ONE” Now you accuse me of telling God what He means and says??
Show me where it says anything about a Trinity?
No, I do not subscribe to this so-called Trinity. Are you happy now? Found plenty to accuse me of now? And I am not a Muslim, any more than I am a Jehovah’s Witness because I speak of Yahweh/Jehovah.
It is written, “God is spirit” – the Father is not a man with a long white beard sitting up in Heaven who is DIFFERENT to the Spirit and Jesus.
Your Name is Toky Fitarikandro. You may be called, “Toky” or Mr Fitarikandro” or maybe uncle, or brother or “mate”. Does this make you FIVE different people? Does the name change your character or personality?
I think it is YOU who is denying the Father because, Jesus tells us ALL (ie: You and me)
“I come in MY FATHER’S NAME and you RECEIVE ME NOT(TRUE?)If one comes in his own name, him you will receive.” Look at this clearly Toky and do not try to twist what it says.
Whose name does YOUR “Jesus” come in? Please be specific.
The True Jesus even tells us, “Whoever believes in Me DOES NOT BELIEVE IN ME, but in HIM WHO SENT ME.” Who IS That Toky?
In Revelation it also speaks of those who are saved “Having the Father’s Name on their forehead”
This next paragraph applies to all who follow a false Jesus. If the Jesus you are following brings you into the presence of ANY OTHER, than Yahweh the God of the Old Testament(My Father’s Name) with all his wrath and anger and love, then your compass is set wrongly and you will end up in the wrong place at the end of your voyage.
It is clear that the FALSE Jesus comes in the “MOTHER”S NAME” and is welcomed far and wide, just as Yahshua prophesied. I challenge you to prove me wrong on this.
This weak and EFFEMINATE “Jesus” is all sweetness (just like his mother), all welcoming, all blind to evil and remains politically correct. THIS “Jesus” will usher in the false WORLD PEACE which will be headed by the ANTICHRIST. THIS “Jesus” is very “Catholic-Friendly” and considers them to be brothers and sisters. Is THIS where you are leading those to whom you are supposedly witnessing?
But let me tell you. For Catholics to be brothers and sisters, you need to ALL have the SAME parents.
A Catholic’s MOTHER = Mary
A Catholic’s FATHER = The POPE! (this word even MEANS FATHER – how much more blatant can it get?)
Go do a survey of as many Catholics as you want and they will tell you that this is absolutely TRUE.
On the contrary, the True disciples of the True Jesus have entirely different PARENTS. I am not going to tell who they are. You will need to find this out for yourself.
You say that you have been a believer for longer than my 18 years. In that case, why am I still labouring these obvious points which an elder in the Lord would certainly know, had he been in touch with the True Jesus and Holy Spirit?
With regard to what you mentioned about Mary (“Marry”) – you say it wasn’t you, and it wasn’t me.
Well for a start, you are correct, it is not you, because you are a man.
But Jesus (Yahshua) says, “Who is my mother, who are my brothers and sisters? Those who do the will of the FATHER are my mother, brother and sister.”
But, you are wrong in saying it was not me. For I AM a mother in Israel. Even more so than “Mary” was in the flesh. She was the physical body who carried the Lord, but she TOO needed to be born again/baptized in the Holy Spirit – and she was later with the other believers in Acts. Had she not been born again, she would not have made it to Heaven either, because “Flesh and blood can not enter Heaven”
Mary carried the physical Jesus born into the world. I and all believing women(mothers in the Lord) carry the RISEN AND ETERNAL CHRIST
Jesus never called Mary “mother” and I think for obvious reasons.
To quote from your last post: “you could be right for some things but I don’t think that Jesus will speak a such way”
What way will Jesus speak then? If you know him better?
What way do YOU expect Him to speak? Why not rather test all things by the Scriptures?
Was He happy with compromise?
Was He happy with lies being told in God’s name?
Was He happy with hypocrites who lead people astray?
Was He happy with the “established church/Synagogue”?
Was He wealthy, well-dressed, carried around on a chariot?
Did He own land, cars, have large bank accounts?
Did He worship the Queen of Heaven?
Did He say it didn’t matter what or Whom you believe, you will all be saved?
Did He say, “Broad is the Way that leads to life and many find it”?
My Bible says, that Jesus was/is “a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief”
“Follow Me.”
Toky, how sad it is that you once were valiant for the Truth (as you said) that you once saw it important to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once handed down to the saints” (NOT Catholic “saints”). How sad that you gave up the struggle to fight the Good Fight and fell into the harlot’s trap.
“AWAKE O SLEEPER, RISE FROM THE DEAD AND CHRIST WILL SHINE UPON YOU.”
Please Toky, come to your senses.
Dear Anna,
From your perspective, could you educate me on who the true Jesus and the false Jesus is? How do we distinguish them? And how do I know I am believing in the true Jesus or the false Jesus?
Here’s how we catholics know we are following the true Jesus, Our Credo:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, who was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into the dead. On the third day He rose again. He ascended into heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father. From thence, He will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.
Can you add anything or deduct anything from this OUR CREDO in order that I might determine if I am am on the wrong Jesus?
Thank you AND GOD BLESS YOU.
CONSTANTINO
Constantino, it has nothing to do with MY perspective or anyone else’s.
What is so hard to grasp about Jesus’ words, “I came to testify to the Truth. All those on the side of Truth hear my voice.”?
It is also written, “They recieve not a love of the Truth in order for them to be saved, therefore GOD HIMSELF shall send them a strong delusion that they believe the lie. That they might all be damned who believed not the Truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
Please read my other posts on this forum and hopefully, you will
start seeing the Light.
Jesus also says, “If the light in you be darkness, HOW GREAT IS THAT DARKNESS.?” That means that there is a DARKNESS THAT MASQUERADES AS LIGHT!
I shall try to briefly make it easier for you for like my Lord and Saviour, I “want that none should perish, but all to come to an understanding of the Truth and so be saved.”
There are dozens of “other jesuses” around if you open your eyes.
The Jehovah’s Witness Jesus is Michael the Archangel if you follow his roots.
There is a surf-wear label “Mambo Jesus”
There is a New Age “Christ Consciousness” and the list goes on.
There is a “Jesus” who brings people to the presence of Mary – or better said, the Queen of Heaven. (please read Jeremiah 7 re the Queen of Heaven)
Obviously (at least to my mind) these are all FALSE Jesuses.
The True, genuine, Saviour Christ, is the Jesus who brings us into the presence of Yahweh ONLY, the God off Isaac, the God of Jacob and the God of Israel.
It is written,” For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
If you are calling on first Mary, then Jesus, to get you through to the Father, then that makes TWO mediators, no ONE. Can’t you see this?
Look, I WAS a Catholic, so I know what goes on behind those closed doors and we used to say this “Credo” over and over every Sunday, and the words meant NOTHING at all, because they were just recited in parrot fashion. (A COMPUTER can say the words of the Credo, even utter “Jesus is Lord” but that means NOTHING.) This all changed for me when I MET THE RISEN CHRIST and He didn’t say a word about worshipping Mary or keeping the Sabbath, or going on to read the Book of Mormon, or that I had to speak in “tongues” etc.
Constantino, how can I emphasise enough, that you are in TROUBLE with this adulterous religion and you simply MUST repent and be born again. Are you above the apostle Paul who was a Pharisee, exceeding his contemporaries in knowledge of the Torah and Pharisee’s religion, but he counted all this as dung compared the knowledge of Christ crucified. THIS is PURE devotion. Pure means UNadulterated with anything else. In other words, the PURE Gospel. That is, Christ crucified plus NOTHING else. Adding anything else ADULTERATES the message.
The devil wants your soul and The Lord Jesus Christ wants your soul…One of them is going to win it and without a love of the Truth, we have no chance!
Lovingly, I say to you, you must read those Scriptures earnestly and Ask, Seek and Knock on God’s door for answers and not believe everything an human beings tells you (ie the Pope) How do you know he is right? Have you tested what he says with Scripture? God is your father, not the Pope! Listen to HIM.
Dear Anna,
You take the teachings or your church as real truth and is light in the same way the Roman Catholic Church is certain her teachings are real truth and real light. There must be a way of determining what is the real truth and what is not. I would suggest that we use some kind of tools, the parameters, criteria, and other boundaries to determine which is true, which is false. I am sure with the help of Perry, whom I admire as a scientific researcher on spritual matters can help us come up with those tools. You see, there would be no end to these increminations, recriminations, faults finding, accusations among us, believers in Jesus if no such basis for judgement is set in place. We may end up as accusers of brothers thus be shaped in the image of the great accuser, Satan, rather than of Jesus Christ.
I would offer some of these tools which, though I have not studied deeply and lenghtily enough, are used by the RC in studying scriptures. These are not complete. I’ll research on them further. But these may serve as starters.
1. Historical criticism
2. Philological criticism
3. Literary criticism
4. Exigesis, Eisegesis, and
others which may serve the purpose.
You and the others who are interested to join the fray may come up with your and their own tools.
I suggested this because I was tempted to say out of my conviction that the light in you is darkness masquerading as light. But how I can prove to you that you err and I do not when we cannot tell what is the basis for my judgment. So some tools are necessary to guide our judgement. Right?
What do you think?
constantino
Dear Perry,
I am very surprised that this comment came from you.
What can I say? “Let him who is filthy be filthy still and let him who is holy be holy still”
You have told us that you are not Catholic. On the contrary, I have been a Catholic so due to this and indepth study AFTER receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I know this monster through and through.
I hate to say this, but your comments show that you are still in kindergarten concerning the things of God. For a start, why do you see nothing wrong with praying to the “Saints”? The true and genuine Saints are NOT dead Catholics who have been “canonised” EVEN THOUGH MANY OF THEM WERE VERY EVIL PEOPLE (check out history if you doubt this). The True and genuine Saints according to the New Testament are the LIVING, BREATHING, Holy Spirit filled followers of Yahshua (Yahweh is Salvation – the true name of Jesus)
Why must I even have to bring these things to your attention? You calaim to be a Christian of some reasonable intelligence and understanding, so how can you not have notices these things? Why have you not seriously considered the Scripture in 2Cor 11:2-4 about the other Jesus, different Spirit and different Gospel? Why do you think these things were written?
To say that Catholics do not worship Mary is very dishonest, bordering on a lie. I challenge you to go to the Vatican some time, just LOOK at the crowds (countless numbers!) of the “faithful” who turn out to see the POPE when he visits and see how many STATUES OF MARY are carried around, KISSED, HELD LOVINGLY. Oh come on Perry, the statue of “St Peter” in the Basilicus in Rome has no TOES LEFT! You know why? Because they have been KISSED TO DEATH by WORSHIPPERS OF STONE!
Anna,
I appreciate your zeal for your belief. However, Do you realize that zealousness can practically dim ones ability to dichotomize truth from lie? It blocks the mind to study only what the zealous person believes in and disregard what others hold as truth. It shuts out information. In the proces, one gets misinformed and deformed. It can even make one uncharitable, unChrist-like to others and can harbor hatred in ones heart like a serpent coiling inside a person. Ultimately it spits out venom.
It hurts us, Roman Catholics, to be branded as a satanic cult or something and are not christians at all. I suggested you read world history, particularly Church History authored by historians without any religious leanings so you can plainly see where you stand. I am sure there are such books in many libraries. I also suggest you read the book “True Life in God” by Vassula Ryden. Another book may help you balance things,”Rome Sweet Home” by Scott Haan, someone who had a zeal for his beliefs like yours.
When you read the books I suggested, we will find ourselves in one faith, one baptism, one people of God. Is it not better that we worship God as one people?
Once your read the books in their entirety, write again.
God Bless you.
In Christ,
CONSTANTINO
Dear Constantino, it is far better for you to be “hurt” now in having the Truth revealed to you than wait for the Judgment when it will be too late to reason with the Lord. It will hurt a lot more then!
“The wounds of a friend are faithful but the kisses of any enemy are deceitful.”
Please do not assume that I have not “done my homework” This is definitely not true. Have you read “my” website yet? I have been a Catholic, my dad had a Catholic funeral and DON’T EVER ASK ME TO TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED THERE!)
I am not one eyed, in fact Jesus GAVE me my sight after many painful and heart-felt pleas.
Let me ask you. How CAN you read world history regarding the Catholic Church and REMAIN in such apostasy??
Here in Australia for example, there are too many orphanages to mention that TORTURED AND STARVED young boys, put them to FORCED labour to PHYSICALLY BUILT WHOLE TOWNS by the sweat of their own brows and the blood of their own backs for the greedy catholic priests to have some pit in which to perform the rest of their debuachery!
These towns still exist today and if ever you are in Western Australia, go have a look at Bindoon, New Norcia, Clontarf for a start!
THIS is true history in my own backyard. And do YOU know what??… NO ONE UTTERED A WORD IN DEFENCE OF THESE ORPHANED BOYS (or in some cases their poor parents in England sent them to these places in the false belief that they were sending their sons to a “good Catholic refuge” to give them a better life!)
NO POLICE, POLIICIANS, CHURCH LEADERS OR LAY PEOPLE DARED utter a word against this horror but chose to brush it all under the carpet because they FEARED this monstrosity called the Catholic Church. Well, I do not. And I will not be silent until the Lord returns to pronounce his judgment on Babylon the Great – MOTHER of harlots.
I dare you to do a Google search on a man called Geordie – Orphan of the Empire – who became an alcoholic after escaping from the torture of New Norcia. His story is almost too much to bear.
(I’ll make it easier on you – here’s the link)
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/clac_ctte/completed_inquiries/1999-02/child_migrat/submissions/sub15.pdf
NOWADAYS, if you do a search on New Norcia, you will find many sweet little entries about an popular heritage town, a great tourist attraction, all nicely covering over the blood and tears of countless helpless boys who were at the mercy of yes, Constantino, a satanic cult.
And their blood STILL cries out from the ground to God for justice! And it is coming. No amount of tourists singing the praises of this house of horrors will deceive the Holy One who is not slow in acting but waits for the appointed time to set all things straight.
THIS, my dear friend, is only the tip of the iceberg as you well know.
Don’t give me this nonsense about all the miracles being performed in the name of Mary.
Neither I nor the Lord Jesus Christ are impressed or fooled. “A bad tree cannot bear good fruit and a good tree cannot bear bad fruit.”
In the days of Moses and Pharoah, we read that the MAGICIANS from Pharoah’s Court were able to COPY AND COUNTERFEIT THE MIRACLES OF MOSES AND AARON. Same today. Nothing new under the sun.
Good going Anna, this Perry (Mason) Marshall is not a good sales man for YHUSHUA
Dear Anna,
If you look at a tree, a real tree, you will see that there are withered branches and withered leaves. In some seasons its heaves fall and it looks ugly. That is a real tree. If you look at a tree made of plastic, you will see all good branches and green leaves. The leaves do not fall. That is an imitation tree.
When Jesus established His Church on Peter, he did not promise a church that will have a smooth sailing on its journey to the end of times. That is the significance of His prophecy that “no gates of hell shall prevail against it.” It means that evil will threaten His Church but will not be able to overcome it. One such evil is the division of His Church, first into two during the reformation and into smitherens after reformation. Another evil that tries to destroy the Church is the sins of its children. Well, from the very beginning of her existence, the Church had been undermined by the sins of many of her children. But if you look at the sins of the christians to judge it as a false church, your “church” won’t qualify as the true church because you won’t find members who are not sinners. If you believe that your church is populated by “angels” then, just like a plastic tree, it’s not a real church.
Jesus did not come to earth from a family tree of all saints. In fact many of His ancestors were great sinners. Juda sold his own brother, Joseph, David murdered his general and made an adulterous relationship with his wife, Tamar (?)was a prostitute. Solomon became an idolater. But in spite of the fact that His lineage did not produce all saintly people, we cannot say that Jesus is not the true messiah. Right? The same way with the Church. You cannot say that “the Church” is not the true Church because some of her children were great sinners. You can tell it is the true church because it can trace it’s line to Peter just like Jesus is the true messiah because his lineage can be traced to David. This is why I asked you to study (or restudy) history. Perhaps you were reading it with a jaundiced eyes.
Another criteria of judging which is the true church is the purity of its teachings. If a church approves divorce, it’s not the true church. If a church approves contraception, it is not the true church. If you are in that church, get out of it immediately.
Studying the Catholic church from the outside will not help anyone see her internal beauty because one will only look at some wrinkles here and there, some warts on her skin, or scarce on her face. Study her from the inside out just like Jesus studied Mary Magdalene and saw in her the beauty of a sinner willing to repent. Don’t look at the sins of the church and condemn her like the Pharisees condemed Mary Magdalene to death. If you study the Church from the inside, I’m sure you will find her beautiful.
I will not blame you for just parroting the “Credo”. Perhaps you did not meditate on its meaning and significance. Nobody must have taught you. It’s not your fault.
Study the Catholic Church again, not from outside looking in but from inside looking out.
For a starter, read the book “True Life in God”. Get hold of the book. It is not authored by a Roman Catholic but by a Greek Orthodox. So it is not biased.
God bless.
constantino
My gosh Constantino! I can’t believe how many Scriptures are fulfilled in you/your teaching!
“You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel”
“First remove the log from your own eye, then you will be able to see clearly in order to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
Do you even know what these Scriptures mean?
You speak of adultery, contraception etc of which you so dissaprove, yet a Catholic’s whole theology is built around Queen of Heaven devotion!
CAN YOU SEE THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM?
You are wrong in thinking that I have only studied this religion from without. It is obvious that you haven’t read a word that I have written on this forum. We are told to “Put all things to the test”(by Scripture being the yard stick). I HAVE done this because I WAS a Catholic UNTIL I was baptised in the Holy Spirit Who then became my Teacher and led me into all Truth.(AND OUT OF CATHOLICISM) You, on the other hand, have not even bothered considering anything that you have heard raising doubts and questions about Catholicism.
Please do not be condescending on me trying to convince yourself that “Nobody must have taught you. It’s not your fault.”
I am one who was taught all the “proper” Catechism, lived the life of a Catholic and did all that was expected of me. I am not an idiot. I speak of things which I know, not of which I do not know. If I speak of things I do not know, I am an hypocrite and am deceived. If I speak of things which I do know, then I am living in the Truth.
This makes you an hypocrite because you do not know from experience that of which you speak nor do you put any such thing to the test.
Let me remind you of a very sobering Truth. We read the Old Testament regarding Yahweh’s interraction with ancient Israel. We read of His fury and judgment upon the evil (especially idolatry and especially Queen of Heaven/Baal worship) committed by these “people of God”, because they were supposed to be a light to the Gentiles. These people DID NOT EVEN HAVE THE Holy Spirit IN them because He had not been given to them enmasse, but they were just trying to (or not)obey God in their fallen human flesh and capability. NOW, since, Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit was given to ALL believers, God’s expectation and standards are FAR greater because HE lives IN us. Far greater, and not LESS!
Don’t you tell me that He will tolerate evil in our lives. “The soul that sins shall die.”
“Whoever professes to follow Christ MUST turn from sin.”
“Whoever continues to sin has never known God.”
If you look at King David’s AGONISING AND HEART-STRICKEN REPENTACNE over his sin with Bathsheba, you will begin to see the expectation that God has when we are confronted with our own evil. David even BEGGED that God not take the Holy Spirit from him! When was the last time you were overcome by your sin and need for forgiveness?
By which god are you blessing me? The apostle Paul says, “there are many lords and many gods.”
The last time my mum prayed to Mary for me I was in labour with my first child. I nearly died (and so did the baby)after 33 hours of excruciating child birth!
PLEASE do not pray to Mary for me !
Judge for yourself whether it is God or you who has got it right.
Constantino, you are in serious trouble.
Dear Anna,
The miracles of Mary began when she conceived her Son Jesus in spite of being a virgin. She is able to ask her Son to do miracles for her like in Cana when she interceeded to Jesus to do something about the shortage of wine. It is not Mary who do miracles. It is her Son thru her. She is a mere instrumnent.
If you are really open minded and not a bigot, I challenge you to search the internet for the stories of the Lady of Guadalupe. Search also “True Life in God”. Read them. After you read them, tell me what you think.
Thank you.
Anna, I have been Catholic all my life, before and after my own baptism in the Spirit. With 12 years of Catholic education, including theology, I have never been taught to worship Mary. Honor her and the saints as faithful followers of the Gospel, yes, as I honor my faithful parents, but NEVER worship! Sorry that your experiences as a Catholic were so awful, I wish that never happens to anyone, but human life is full of obstacles.
By the way, did you know that you are named after the sainted mother of Mary and that your name means “gift of God?”
Dear Anna,
This thing about kissing images of Mary and also of saints is the manifestation of ones devotion, love, respect, endearment, reverence to the Mother of God or to the beloved saints. It is a very human act endowed by the creator to man to reflect love because God is Love. I do not know if you love your mother, or your husband, or your children. But most people, when they dont have their love ones around would kiss, hug and place them on their breasts the pictures of their love ones as an expression of their love. When you kiss the picture of your loved one, does it make you an idolater? So what’s the difference between catholics kissing the images of Mary and the saints? They are as human as anybody else deserving our fondest love.
We love the Mother of God and the saints. We express this love by kissing their images.
You can be right that RC’s are idolaters if they profess that Mary or the saints are gods. While we do not, you will be sinning judging our hearts.
Be careful. Thanks
constantino
What DOES Yahweh mean when He says, “DO NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELVES A GRAVEN IMAGE”? Graven = CARVED statue!
YOU tell me!
“Those who worship idols will become like their idols. With eyes that cannot see, ears that cannot hear and a mouth that cannot speak” and I say with an heart of STONE that cannot love.
I fear God Constantino and shudder at the wrath some people are flirting with in their rebellion.
I am very careful Constantino. I desire to be FAITHFUL to my Lord. “The spiritual man judges all things.” We MUST judge by the Word of God and not by our own feelings. It is THEN that we get into hot water.
The word “faithful” is very interesting too. If in this world, we make a “FAITHFUL COPY” of anything, it is EXACTLY the same with no deviation.
Dear Anna,
Christians who accuse the Roman Catholic Church of idolatry simply did not understand the command of God not to make graven images. What God was telling was not to carve images of anything that would be would worshipped as gods . What God forbade was carving of idols. Not anything that is carved is an idol. Take for example the brazen serpent God commanded Moses to carve. The Israelites who looked up to the brazen serpent were saved from death after being bitten by snakes. God ordered Moses to carve images of seraphims placed on top of the ark of the covenant. The temple was decked with carved images of flowers, etc. God is not inconsistent. He cannot violate His own law by commanding at one time not to carve images of anything and command again to carve images at another time. What God forbade was to carve idols and only idols.
The images of the saints, the Virgin Mary, of Jesus you see in the churches and homes of catholics are simply not idols. They are not worshipped as other gods.
I believe this is the first thing that the person who proselytized you to the born again sect did was to quote to you that verse in Exodus to show that the Catholic Church is an idolatrous church. Of course he will do so because if he does not destroy first the Catholic Church, how could he convince you to join his church. Reread your bible and understand it in the proper context.
Remember that Jesus Christ established only one church. Reread also your history. Other churches like yours were established by men after the great rebellion of Martin Luther.
Thanks
constantino
Brother,
Please be well documented before stating those important statements: “Other churches like yours (Anna’s actually) were established by men after the great rebellion of Martin Luther.”
I typed ‘define: rebellion’ on google, and I got:
– refusal to accept some *authority* or *code* or *convention*; …
– *organized* opposition to authority; a conflict in which one faction tries to *wrest control* from another
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
– Rebellion is a refusal of *obedience or order* . It may, therefore, be seen as encompassing a range of behaviors from civil disobedience and mass nonviolent resistance, to violent and organized attempts to *destroy* an established authority such as the government. …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellion
…
Before I go further (if it is needed, I mean, if you really think that you are right at this point) let me bro suggest you:
– to define well what is ‘church’ (vs ‘denomination’, ‘congregation’…), and which church are you talking about here?
– to define what ‘church’ Jesus was talking about when He built it upon Peter (Matt. 16:18). Is it the ‘household of God’ (Eph 2:19-22), just like when I call you brother, when you’re ‘Christian’, even if I don’t know something else about you, or some new thing for me? [bible study: tell me what is the: ‘all the building’ said in verse 21?]
– you mean: only Catholic was not established by man. Doesn’t it mean that only Catholic is approved (= genuine -> has place in heaven)?
– to read the story (I mean detailed story) of Martin Luther: you don’t have to, but try to avoid his name if you don’t. Why? because: I am not a soldier of somebody else than Jesus my God and my Savior, but I love you and God won’t be happy of your saying that Martin Luther was a rebel, if he is God’s. (What God did to Miriam and Aaron, brother and sister of Moses, when they ‘spake against’ the ‘servant’ of God, ‘who is faithful in all mine house.’, saith the LORD? Number 12)
My point is:
– Martin Luther was not trying to destroy but correct (Just like what Jesus did for the Judaism, I am not comparing the person, but the action)
– he was not even stand against an authority, he was against a non-biblical ‘teaching’ (selling of forgiveness, practiced to have enough money to build a great church, a physical one, in Rome). And he succeed actually, praise the Lord, Catholic church stop doing that evil thing.
– he was not organised just by his own, or violent but violated, put into prison and so on
-> I mean: he was not a rebel, I don’t know about the next ones (some was, some was not)
– It was not his will that Lutheran church was founded, but the Roman Catholic church ‘cast him out’. His very will is that the church would be ‘renewed’.
God be with you all.
Dear Toky,
Sorry, I touched a nerve. If one defies authority, to me it is rebellion. History shows Martin Luther initiated an anti-pope, anti-church sentiment in the reformation. That is why many christians cut their ties with Rome, then the proliferation of other sects began. The pope is considered by christians before Luther, and after, as the head of the Church as much as a king is a head of a state. If one defies a king, it is rebellion. The fact that many of the followers of Luther did away with many Roman Catholic teachings and practices shows that it was not only to correct the errors of the Church, if they were errors in the first place, but to practically build another church devoid of any trace of catholicism. That is the result of Luther’s defiance of the pope. You know I am sad that the history of the church made an ugly turn. The path to reunification and reconciliation is already strewn with hatred. Wars were waged by christians against each other in the name of the same Jesus Christ. We can even see it in this forum, us christians throwing venom at each other. I feel hopeless because I am also a victim of the broken Body of Christ when my younger brother left the Catholic Church.
The Roman Catholic Church is always open to reconciliation but bigotry and calumny placed a wall. In spite of all these, the Roman Catholic Church have not condemned separated brethren to the fires of hell, as some of us in this forum do to the Church. You must read the church document, Lumen Gentium. The Catholic Church defines the “Church” as “The
people of God. The document did not exclude any people from salvation, they b e protestants, muslims, animists as long as they live in charity and follow their conscience.
We can do much to make this reconciliation possible thru this forum by setting aside our differences and putting at the center the many things we have in common and specially our faith in Jesus Christ. Then let us respect each other’s views and positions, study them with open minds, and allow truth to come out by not allowing bigotry to take the best in us.
A book about true ecuminism is available in the internet. Please browse “True Life in God” by Vassula Ryden. It may help us set our foot on the road to unity.
Sorry Toky.
P.S. You refered to the selling of indulgences. The selling was abusive, I admit, but the teaching is sound. If one does good, he earns merits. I just cant recall the story in the bible wherein a woman who was considered a sinner,tipped a party of some impending danger and it was taken as a merit to her. A glass of water given to a thirsty person even gets a reward. The basis of the teaching is biblical. The impelentation, though, was, I should say, pharasaical.
God bless you, Toky.
constantino
There was no ‘Reply’ link on your last post, so I reply here.
Brother, it will be long, take your time, be patient, and read (as how I read yours, phrase by phrase).
You know what: I am not sure if you even get my point.
It’s not about nerve touched, it’s about you: I said, “I am not a soldier of somebody else than Jesus my God and my Savior, but I love you and God won’t be happy of your saying that Martin Luther was a rebel, if he is God’s [this is important]. (What God did to Miriam and Aaron, brother and sister of Moses, when they ’spake against’ the ’servant’ of God, ‘who is faithful in all mine house.’, saith the LORD? Number 12 [let me add here, because seems like you didn’t read the story: Miriam became leprous!])”.
If those Christians in the church where their Father priest does pedophile keep the true teaching of Christ, would you say that they are rebel? And the truth always win, Luther won: the Roman Catholic Church stop doing their wrong doing. Isn’t it?
And again, when you say: ‘when one difies authority, to me it is rebellion’, he didn’t defy authority, he defied ‘wrong teaching’.
When you say: ‘ML initiated an anti-pope’, you say wrong. First: He loved the pope, he was very happy visiting Rome the first time, but he was so shocked when he saw how bad the pope (of his time) abused the authority God has given.
So sad!
Second, he was not the first one, many were before him, but they are heretics, their movement failed, they were burnt alive (eg. Jan Hus). Gamaliel said: “And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.”
Permit me to tell what defying authority is (even it is the first one): it is what the Orthodox did, they just ‘refuse’ to come for the council that pope called, and they organized their own organization. But they kept the right teaching; I mean the base of Christianity.
Even you, brother: you enjoy a lot of the result of what Martin Luther initiated: you can read your bible (hopefully that we read it) which was forbidden for ‘simple Christian’ before (time of ML), you can even read it in English (Luther was the first who translate the Bible in other language than Latin, to German) :)
When you say: ‘cut their ties with Rome’, shouldn’t it be a happy thing? ’cause, Jesus came to give us ‘freedom’, and you prefer to be tied again !?
You said: “The pope is considered … as a king… of the Church.” You are right: but a king is given because we asked for it (8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.), even if it wasn’t/isn’t God’s plenty will (8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.), and when King does wrong, read your bible again, God divide the kingdom after the idolatry of Solomon. (1King 11)
If you are not warned, let me tell you that the story of Israel is just the shadow of Christianity’s story. God gave them freedom after the slavery of Egypt/Jesus gave us freedom after slavery of sin -> God was their head, father/the same for us -> the Israel asked for a king (Instead of God)/we prefer an organization a head, or king, father, pope, not ‘only’ God -> and then God said yes to them/the same to us, God blessed the RC -> but the King Solomon commit sin/the early pope was corrupted -> then God divided the kingdom of Israel, and gave the ten part (the majority) to his servant/started by Luther (a simple priest), the church was divided.
I agree when you say: “The fact that many of the followers of Luther did away with many Roman Catholic teachings and practices …”. I agree, there was/is a political issue to ‘get people’. But, it’s not how it was at the very beginning. At first, it concerned only the teaching (95 thesis of ML), but when pope didn’t listen by casting him out of the church, then he followed his way. Anyway, can you tell me that he did away also the basis of being Christian?
Be fine my brother, in this forum, no Christian fight against Christian (knowing what they believe), but those who stand against the other are not Christian (if they know what they are saying, of course), if you read my early post with Anna then you will see that she is not Christian yet, I mean, she doesn’t believe the Christ that I and you (I guess) believe. Who is that Christ? He is true man, true God. Anna doesn’t believe the Holy trinity of God. So that’s why. The warfare in this forum is between the kingdom of Christ, and the kingdom of this world, the devil.
When I read, I can see how much you like unity. But your love of unity is not more than God’s. What I mean is: God who is LOVE punishes in the eternal fire, the sinners who don’t believe the salvation did by His only begotten Son Jesus Christ, then what more can you do? (Mar. 16: 16)
Thanks for your definition of church as ‘the people of God’, making me understand that you were not right saying: “Other churches [else than RC] like yours were established by men”, because being established by men not God, merits hell. Only God establish the right church (that knows God), because: Matt. 11:27 “…no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”
But I totally disagree with the document, if it really says that dying as a muslim [I need help here Perry, if you read this line of course :) ] will be saved as long as they live in charity and follow their conscience. Why? because no document is above the Bible, and what the Satan wants is confusing people, not knowing anymore what is right from what is wrong : ‘just follow your conscience, and it will be fine’ !!!
According to the bible, Jim Brechtel was right saying on December 9, 2010 at 11:11 pm: “Contrary to what many want us to believe, the god(s) worshiped by non-Christians is not the same God whorshiped by Christians. Notwithstanding certain extraordinary exceptions that might or might not exist, to believe one can enter the Kingdom of the Father by any religion other than Christianity is heresy.” Jesus was clear saying: “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
Read what I replied to Anna about RC, and you will know how I stand before difference. (Catholic church is Christian and my point of view about Mary, on November 17, 2010 at 2:26 am, Jesus is God on November 23, 2010 at 11:59 pm)
Don’t be so sorry, you didn’t touch any nerve, I am sorry if I didn’t communicate well, when I was trying to tell you that standing ‘against’ Luther is not godly, if you don’t ‘really’ know him (seems like), because he might be a loyal servant of Christ. And I don’t like you to be against God. (Ref to Gamaliel’s saying)
Nothing is right with selling indulgence: (you misunderstood it, I think)
– the foundation of the idea: collecting money.
– basis of the teaching: do good for your bad doing (even the future ones) to be forgiven (which is cancelling the death of Christ. why need Christ, if I can just do good things !!? Gal. 2:21 “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”)
– manifestation: selling/buying forgiveness, which is opening the gate of heaven with money!!!
It’s not about being rewarded of doing goods. It’s about buying your salvation. (Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.)
Stay blessed brother.
Dear Toky,
You are so brotherly in your interaction in this forum. Thank you for that and may God bless you the more. Thank you also for your explanation. Before I take up what I understand about rebellion and reformation, I wish to take up first the Church Document, Lumen Gentium (Light of Nations). What I paraphrased in the document was only the section regarding who will be saved. The document simply recognized that all men are God’s children be they christians or otherwise. Those who do not know Christ because they were not evangelized, never heared his teachings are guided by the law that God has placed in every heart and mind of man, conscience and that innate charity, goodness present in everyone’s heart. The document has a clause that says, however, if one KNOWS that the Church was necessarily established for salvation of men but does not enter in it or if he leaves it, he shall not be saved. I think the reason for this is refusing to enter or leaving, after knowing that the Church is necessary for salvation, if tantamount to rejecting Christ and rejecting God. God does not reject man. But if man, out of his free will rejects God, there is nothing much God can do.
This brings us to the issue on rebellion and reformation. Reformation is changing things from within the organization for the GOOD of the organization. When one cannot change what is perceived as bad in the organization and makes that change by getting out of the organization and try to enforce the change from the outside,refuse to follow the existing authority, then it becomes rebellion. The mere fact that there is an existence of ANOTHER church outside the RC is the proof that there was indeed a rebellion. There are other authorities being followed outside the authority of the Pope. In the reformist churches, there is no clear authority because each sect has its own leader. Since its foundation, the Petrine seat has an unbroken line of succession as historical records evidenced, the present pope being the 265th bishop of Rome after Peter.
I am not standing against Luther. I was only stating the historical fact. In fact I wish that he is in heaven.
I agree with you that simply doing good things may not be a guarantee for salvation. James says, good deeds without faith is dead. Faith without good deeds is dead.
With regards to the sins of the priests and church leaders, it is too bad and very embarassing for us RC’s. But brother, if there are murderers, rapists, a thieves, and other criminals is a community, it does not mean that the community are all murderers, rapist, thieves, etc. If there are errant priests in the Church, it does not follow that the Church is a false church.
Hope my explantions make sense.
Thank you.
Constantino
No ‘Reply’ link again for your last post :(
Sorry answering very late, I didn’t receive the mail saying your reply, so I had to check it at the site by myself.
Anyway, Hello bro.
To God be the glory if I am brotherly, I just follow the teaching of Christ to love even my enemies. Not easy, and I am even still far away from the target, but I love to learn from our LORD.
Thanks for your ‘new’ way of answering (hehe), for that matter what I want to say is that: Stay calm in every situation (Jesus was calm and cool before the storm), because we are confident having Christ in our side, He is in the same boat as us. That’s why the miracle doesn’t cease because Jesus is always there to do it for us, if it is needed to praise His name. I understand why you spoke that way (rebellion and so on) because you just reply Anna according to the way she behaves; and the next ones are just to protect your idea. But, try (if I dare giving advice) to let your light shine in the darkness, do not let the darkness cover your powerful light, which is the Love of Jesus Christ.
For the matter of those who don’t believe, let me quote you a scripture from Romans 9 (NIV). I will add my comments in {…}, I am not supposed to, but to let the idea flows then I hope you understand my doing.
(What I do right now is not defying the document Lumen Gentium, but showing us how I see what the Holy Scripture says about the matter)
{}
6It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children {there are God’s children and there are the ‘not God’s children’. How to know whether I or you or she is one of them?}, but it is the children of the promise {that’s it: children of the promise. Who are they?} who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”{so it is the descendant of Isaac then, not from Ismael, from where the Islam start.}
10Not only that, but Rebekah’s children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand {So God elect by his own purpose, not my work!! waw!}: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” {So, God hates too!}
14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? {That’s the very big question, followed by a very powerful answer. hehe} Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” {That’s it: because God is God}
16It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19One of you will say to me {it is Paul’s saying to the Roman}: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” {amazing, Paul knows even what we will think about his statement!} 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? {here it is: same clay give many kinds of pottery, some for noble purposes, and some for common use}
22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction {really!?: wrath-prepared for destruction!!! waw!}? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy {oh! I see, to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy!}, whom he prepared in advance for glory {wrath-prepared for destruction vs. whom he prepared in advance for glory}— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles {Gentiles also!? how? Isn’t it because of the new generation from Jesus, or do you mean it is the new generation from the conscience?}? 25As he says in Hosea:
“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”
26and,
“It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not my people,’ {so there were not God’s people}
they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” {how? By conscience is ok? Not has to be by Jesus Christ?}
{}
So if it can be done without Jesus: just by following the conscience, why need Jesus? do that document really think that God ‘enjoy’ that His only begotten Son suffer on the cross!!!? Do you really think so!?
No! Jesus has to die for those ‘not Children of God’ to be His. No other way!
As you say that ‘the present pope is the 265th bishop of Rome after Peter’ (even though Peter was not bishop of Rome, was he?): can you tell me: who is the one that followed Peter, and who anointed him, when?
Last for the sins of those priests, believe me or not, I set a prayer session for them, because we need Jesus’ healing for the church’s leader. I am not happy of that fact, that I have something to be against the RC, but I wanted to tell you that being in the right side (side of the truth of Jesus Christ) is better than the side of the sin, even if you have to rebel (if you want to say it so) for that. If Luther was not at the side of the truth, then you will still buy the indulgences even nowadays (that’s how Christ shows him that the church was doing sin).
Last after the last, can you reply my post on your post about the topic of sinless Mary.
Stay blessed
Dear Toky,
You have a good explanation there on who are God’s people. What I understand about that is God has chosen a people to be His own people to set them apart from all other people so that through this chosen people His Divinity and His laws will be revealed to all nations thru His Son Jesus Christ. That is why Jesus Christ did not exclude the Gentiles from salvation. For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whosoever believes in him shall not perish and have everlasting life. “Whosoever believes in him” includes everyone regardless of race or descendance. On the question posed by his disciples, “Then who shall be saved?” Jesus replied, “For God nothing is impossible. I now ask a hypothetical question. Is it possible that after the death of an unbeliever (because he has not heared of Jesus or have heared about him but had not the chance of knowing more about him) that Jesus will reveal himself to the person and and the person will believe in Jesus as God, thus earn him salvation?
constantino
Anna,
I erred. the carved images of the angels placed on the ark of the covenant were not seraphims. They were cherubims. Whatever, they were carved images. The Israelites bow down and worship before the ark of the covenant. But they were not worshipping the carved image. Same way with catholics. We kneel and bow before the tabernacle in which the Emmanuel is present physically in the form of bread, the bread of life, His body, the body he asked all believers to eat. The images one sees around the altars are not the object of the worship but God, Jesus Christ.
Get my point?
For some reason, my computer is playing up and I cannot directly reply to your message from 1st December so I shall use this link instead.
To begin with a quote from this message of yours –
Constantino: “But how I can prove to you that you err and I do not when we cannot tell what is the basis for my judgment. So some tools are necessary to guide our judgement. Right?
What do you think?”
Anna: What do I think? What would Jesus say to this?
Of course! “Come let us reason together. Though you sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as wool.”
Constantino, you must understand that I do not listen to the voice of the serpent anymore and so I shall tell you what the Lord says,
He says, “SANCTIFY THEM BY THE TRUTH. YOUR WORD (YAHWEH’S WORD) IS TRUTH.
“THE SPIRIT IS THE WORD.”
Therefore. The final authority and guage of Truth and error IS The Word of God.
“Whoever goes beyond the teaching of Christ does not have God with him”
If we do not have definitive Truth then we end up with chaos. Precisely why the world is in the mess it’s in because it drifts around in eroneous “relative truth” and is in…chaos…
If then, you are willing to come to the reasoning table and take counsel (and give counsel)from the Word of God then we may get somewhere.
On the other hand, it is impossible if you do not have a basis for your judgment.
Anna,
Yes I believe you that the final authority on truth is the Word of God in the Scriptures. You are very very correct in that and I agree with you 101%. But, Anna, you see, the Word of God was spoken to people, human beings. Some people are wise, some people are fools, some people are educated, some people are ignorant. Most people are ignorant regarding the Scriptures. Because of this when people begin reading the bible they interpret them according to what their minds can grasp. That is why you see proliferation of many christians sects and denominations. They all read the scriptures but they cannot agree on truth.
constantino
Dear Anna,
“Come let us reason together.” This is what we should do, all of us christians. Only then can we iron out our differences.
constantino
Why do you see nothing wrong with praying to the “Saints”? The true and genuine Saints are NOT dead Catholics who have been “canonised” EVEN THOUGH MANY OF THEM WERE VERY EVIL PEOPLE (check out history if you doubt this).
Anna, from the following verses in the Scripture, you can understand that all the people whose body had died are not all spiritually dead. Jesus went down into hell and raised the saints from their death. After Jesus defeated death on the cross, saints do not die even if if their physical bodies on the earth are dead. So Catholics are requesting mediation not from the dead but from living Saints.
Rom 6:3-4
Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.
Col 2:12
You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
Anna,
The first very evil person to enter heaven the very same day Jesus died was the repentant thief crucified with Jesus. So one can be a great sinner all his life and become a saints on his last breath.
So I think your assessment of the catholic saints is very judgemental.
I don’t buy your claim that the real saints are the living, breathing, Holy Spirit filled. While we still walk the ground, we may stumble on a rock and fall.
To accuse the catholics of worshipping Mary is not only the worst mental and intellectual dishonesty, it is a spiritual jaundice or blindness, a refusal to see correctly things in their proper context and perspective, a pervertion of truth, a bigotry beyond correction and redemption. Why? Nowhere in the teaching of the RC does it say that Mary is God. Nowhere in any documents of the RC is Mary given the attributes of God, not even a goddess.
If heaven honors her as the woman clothed with the sun and crowned with stars and standing above the earth, should not earth give the same honor?
Mary has enmity with the devil, a role God gave her when Eve sinned. This battle between Mary and Satan is very evident in the present times when Mary is much maligned and discredited . Anyone trying to discredit her is on the devil’s side.
constantino
Dear Perry, I must say that I am very surprised at your response.
If this were not an important issue, believe me, I would be doing something else. It’s not as though I have a boring life in need of something to “liven it up”!
Your comments reflect an appalling lack of knowledge of the Word of God and it is written, “My people perish for lack of knowledge”.
How do you not see anything wrong with people praying to “saints”?
For starters, the Saints that the New Testament talks about are NOT dead Catholics who have been “canonised” after much so-called investigation. Many of THESE “saints” have been proven to be very unwholesome characters if you search history. The TRUE and genuine Saints of God are LIVING, BREATHING, HOLY followers of Yahshua (Yahweh is Salvation (Jesus)) in the world NOW (and back then)Yahshua says, ” Why seek ye the living among the dead?”
How is it that the Catholic spirit has so lied to you and caused you to believe lies instead of the Truth?
Have you taken 2Cor11:2-4 out of your Bible regarding the other Jesus, different spirit and different gospel? If not, WHY WAS IT WRITTEN THERE? AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
Even though you say you are not a Catholic, you seem pretty sure that they “do not worship Mary.” You sound just like one of them – that’s what they will ALL tell you! I challenge you therefore, to go to the Vatican and take a look around. The Vatican is supposedly the holy city! (can’t you even see that this has been STOLEN from Jerusalem’s claim? Believe me, there is NOTHING holy about the Vatican Perry. The Pope makes all the rules on what is allowed and what is not, this to be OFFICIAL CATHOLIC DOCTRINE – no less. Next time this “father” visits a nation, just have a close look at the ADORING FANS who kiss his ring, bow and worship even HIM. Just take a close look at the number of STATUES OF MARY which are carried around, KISSED, CUDDLED, PRAYED TO, then check out your local catholic church and THEN come and tell me that “catholics do not worship Mary.” They even call her the QUEEN OF HEAVEN! Don’t you see what that means? PLEASE do some Bible research on the Queen of Heaven”. And PLEASE prayerfully consider “my” thesis – The Immaculate Deception. If you do not, you are only hearing ONE SIDE of the story and this leads to tyranny and PREJUDICE.
Oh Perry, I was SO hoping that by you sending that link to the miracle of the amputee, that you were seeing the folly in all this nonsense. My heart is crying that you are actually going along with it!
Now for the bombshell. Try as hard as you like, in the name of Yahshua, I will not keep my silence on this issue which I KNOW has been revealed to me accurately by the Holy Spirit who teaches what is true, not false. Threaten me all you like about “blaspheming the Holy Spirit”, because Perry, The Spirit of Truth is IN me and for 18 years, I have fought at the front line of the warfare between Christ and Satan. Don’t you think the Saviour would protect one from blaspheming His Holy Spirit, one who is in earnest search for the Truth in battling the gates of hell? What this means is. To warn people against questioning ANYTHING and EVERTHING that supposedly comes in Jesus’ name, to terrify people SO much thinking that they may commit this sin, is the devils FAVOURITE and most POWERFUL tool and weapon that he wields over the Church today. Can’t you SEE that he can (and DOES) teach all kinds of lies and deceit, leading people BLINDLY into highly offensive behaviour and then SEALS all this by trumpeting that we must not even DARE WHISPER any question or objection, lest we commit that unforgivable sin.
Perry, I have been right down this road and I can tell you, if we ask with the right MOTIVE, if we search for the Truth with ALL our heart, if we love the Lord(Yahweh) our God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength, then we WILL want to find out what is True and what is a lie and we WILL find out. My God is not like the devil, who dangles the carrot before the donkey. My God says, “Ask and you WILL received, Seek and you WILL find, knock and the door WILL be opened to you.”
When I quit being scared of the roar of satan’s lion, and started to HONESTLY appraise what was going on around me in the Church, testing ALL things by Scripture, I was shown some pretty dumbfounding things… I have no objection to the Word of God. He is altogether pure. “To the pure I shew Myself to be pure, but to the forward, I shew Myself to be most unsavoury”
Now. To believe EVERYTHING that is told you in Jesus’ name, and DARE NOT EVEN CONTEMPLATE the thought that it may be wrong, through the risk of blaspheming, then the devil can have an unbridled, uncontested field day of evil!
To the point, where, eventually NO ONE will question ANYTHING (The Holy Spirit just showed me this right now as I type) ANYTHING THAT COMES IN JESUS’ NAME and will go along with the most despicable evil and not only embrace this, but SAY IT IS HOLY AND FROM GOD! In the end people WILL blaspheme the Holy Spirit, by attributing to Him all manner of evil and injustice when it WAS the devil doing it! This is PRECISELY what Yahshua prophesied would be the end state of the “Church” But “Wo to those who call good evil and evil good”
Perry, this is not a tea party. When will you grow up in the Lord and realize that “Not all who call Lord, Lord will be saved but those who do the will of the Father”? (NOT THE POPE FATHER!)
When will you realize that not everyone who says they are from God, ARE from God? When will you realize that satan is a liar and the father of lies? When he speaks his truth, he speaks a lie. And where on this earth do you suppose he would most want to be?
When will you realize that satan is “deceiving the entire inhabited earth” (Greek “oikoumene” from which we derive the English word, ECUMENICAL)
If this does not make you stop and think, then you are clearly taking sides with Babylon the Great, the MOTHER of harlots whose fate is beyond description, but my prayer for you is that you wake up before it is too late and start listening to the Truth, the True Jesus, be baptized in the True Holy Spirit and believe the True Gospel. I, Anna represent a true mother in Israel, that is one reason I can so easily detect the MOTHER OF HARLOTS, because she does NOT speak the Truth and leads God’s people into HARLOTRY, not purity.
Think about it.
Dear Anna,
I believe it is in Hebrews 12: 21 that it is said: “we come to . . . the spirits made perfect.”
The spirits made perfect are, I believe, the saints.
If the scriptures says we can come to them, how do we do it except by praying to them. Praying to the saints is also illustrated by the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. After their death, the rich man prayed to Abraham to send Lazarus to him with fingers dipped in water to alleviate his thirst. The rich man did not pray to God directly but to Abraham. So prayer to the saints is not unbiblical. It is scriptural.
Convinced?
Bless you, Anna.
constantino
Perry –
What Catholic church have you been talking to? Our Local Catholic church does not worship Jesus as God. They highly esteem Mary and give absolutely no regard to he Holy Spirit/Ghost.
Probably one of the biggest non-Christian movements is the Roman Catholic Church. Now – not all Catholics are lost – anymore than all Baptists are saved, but as a whole the Religion is violently flawed.
I do not think your Catholic church represents the current beliefs of Rome or 2000 years of writings of the church fathers.
Nor am I trying to idealize the Catholic church.
But there are plenty of Catholics reading this who can respond more credibly than me.
Perry,
Shawn must have seen a bogus catholic church. They abound in many parts of the world. The church loyal to Rome is the genuine Church.
constantino.
Shawn is absolutely correct. And so are you Constantino. “The church loyal to Rome is the genuine Church”
Straight from the “horse’s mouth”
If Shawn Critser is responsible and does not intend to mis-guide people, he should verify facts before submitting them to this forum which is read by many.
Tony, re: Shawn Critser – I suggest that you first remove the log from your own eye then you will be able to see clearly in order to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Well Shawn, at one time in history, there were Catholics and there were “Protestants”
The word “PROTEST-ants” meant those who were OPPOSED to and PROTESTED AGAINST ROME!
See any “Protestants” around today? Or have all the daughters gone back to Mother?
Thank you for your concise comment!
Perry has been talking to a true Catholic church, not teaching what you seem to perceive. Catholics who really know the Church, whether faithful to it or not, were never taught to worship Mary or the saints. Perhaps there are superstitious Catholics who “worship” Mary or one of the saints, but that’s not the teaching of the Church. It has always taught that Jesus is divine, and has always taught devotion to the Holy Spirit.
Devotion to the saints is not worship, but affection! In the Apostles’ Creed, which is recited at Mass every day, Catholics state their belief in the “communion of saints.” That means all, dead or alive, and that we are connected to each other. It’s like belonging to a huge family. As one asks for prayers from living friends and relatives, one can ask dead saints, including ones who are recently departed, for their prayers.
One of my favorite saints is St. Anthony, patron of finding lost things (and people). He never fails me, somehow inspires me to find whatever I lost. ESP?
I’ve been on the planet almost 8 decades and gone to MANY Catholic churches and schools, but never saw or heard of a Catholic church that would look like the local church that you speak of, Shawn. If what you say is true, call the bishop, because they might be heretics….
Joan, you are mistaken, for I do not speak of things which “I perceive”. On the contrary, I speak of documented evidence from both the Roman Catholic official doctrine and Heirachy plus my own personal Testimony confirmed by the Holy Spirit and Word of God.
There are four possibilities for your current state:
1. You are deceived by Satan (and God, not receiving a love of the Truth)
2. You are being dishonest to both yourself and others.
3. You are deliberately lying
4. You do not know your Bible.
Question: Do you honour the Pope?
If you DO, then you believe and promote the very same apostasy with all it’s idolatry and Mary (Queen of Heaven)worship.
If you DO, then the Pope is your real teacher, “father”, leader.
Therefore, If you DO NOT subscribe to such blatant false teaching, then the Lord Jesus Christ commands you to “Come out of her My people, lest you share in her sins, lest you partake of her plagues.”
Regarding MY “superstition”, your comments are SURELY the pot calling the kettle black!
The entire Roman religion is based around blatant superstition and you utter words even here to condemn yourself.
WHO gives you permission to “pray to dead saints”? It is CERTAINLY NOT the Lord Jesus Christ. Then WHO?
Yahweh (Jesus Christ)says, “When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn. ” (Isaiah 8:19-20)
I do not doubt that you have been taught about a “Jesus” and “Holy spirit”. However, we are told in 2Corinthians 11:2-4 that there is a FALSE Jesus, a DIFFERENT spirit and a DIFFERENT gospel.”! You really need to read and BELIEVE what your Bible is saying for, “My people PERISH for lack of knowledge.”!
Be honest with yourself now. Does YOUR “Jesus” bring you into the presence of Yahweh, the God of Isaac the God of Jacob and the God of Israel or to MARY?? Be honest!
Because the TRUE Jesus says, “Whoever believes in Me, DOES NOT BELIEVE IN ME but in Him (not “her”)who sent Me.”
If you admit to Jesus bringing you into the presence of Yahweh, then you HAVE TO ALSO ADMIT that Queen of Heaven worship, idolatry, eating flesh and drinking blood, speaking with the dead are all EVIL AND STRONGLY FORBIDDEN! If on the other hand, you are in touch with the false “Jesus”, then of course, you will be ENCOURAGED to perform all kinds of detestable practices which insult the Living God and make His Word, “null and void.”
The Jesus of the Catholic Church is the COUNTERFEIT one, who ALLOWS the witchcraft you speak of (speaking to the dead) for it is written,
“There is One God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
When you “pray” to dead saints/Mary etc, that makes ONE mediator, who then goes to Jesus (the SECOND mediator) so now you have TWO mediators when God says there is ONLY One. Are you willing to tell God what is right and wrong??
The Lord Jesus Christ tells us, “I Am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by Me.”
“For there is no other name given to men under heaven by which you MUST BE SAVED.” ONE NAME – NOT HUNDREDS!
Therefore, Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is near” and “You must be born again, for flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven”.
“Not all who call Lord, Lord will be saved, but those who do the will of the FATHER”(and this does NOT mean the Pope!)
This is no laughing matter Joan. Your eternal life is at stake!
Dear Anna,
I’m not laughing, especially when you judge the state of my soul–“Judge not, let you be judged.” I beg of you, please fight the temptation to judge everyone who does not agree with you in their understanding of Scripture or the whisperings of the Spirit in their ears. This morning’s reading from the Epistle to the Romans (15:7)”It can only be to God’s glory, then, for you to treat each other in the same friendly way as Christ treated you.”
At any rate, I thought of you during Mass and decided to pray for you.
The whole thrust of the New Testament is love of God and neighbor, not theological argument but producing good fruit. How can you have such contempt for a community that produces a Saint Francis of Assissi, whose prayer is still the most expressive of the Faith, after the Lord’s prayer:
“Lord, make me an instrument of your peace,
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
where there is sadness, joy;
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.’
Francis has brought many thousands to Jesus by his love, not his theological argument. God grant us the grace to imitate him….
Peace, Joan
Amen.
Anna,
Your comments to Joan reveals that you cannot differentiate reverence from worship. This dulls your judgement.
Constantino
Joan,
I wish to add to your article about communion of saints so that some may be informed about the catholic teaching. The Church teaches that there are 3 stages or levels of the Church: First, the pilgrim church, the church suffering, and the church triumphant. The pilgrim church is us, the living. The church suffering are those people who died but do not deserve the punishsment of hell who are paying to the last penny their transgressions in purgatory. The church triumphant are those souls who are with God in heaven, the saints. The pilgrim church pray to God to bail the souls in purgatory. In every mass, in every rosary, these prayers for the souls in purgatory are offered. The church triumphant intercede with God for both the pilgrim church and the church suffering. God is not a God of the dead but of the living that is why in the catholic church both the living and the dead are in communion, the communion of saints.
Thanks Joan.
constantino
Dear Perry,
If you really don’t know about Roman Catholicism (RC) kindly read refer to the Alberto series from Chick.com. It’s in comic form too and real easy to read. A condensed version on d form a chich tract about why RC is not Christianity shout be there.
From there you cud probably understand why some ex-RC like Anna and possibly your truly too are quite certain that anything coming out from that RC is likely of Satanic in origin. However I don’t wanna go Anna’s way of debating with every1. I was in no mood to read her postings too. My concern is to keep YOU in the know.
Btw since I’m coming from the region of Asia, why other religions like Hinduism, Taoism and Animism are still commonly found? That’s bcuz they all have their miracles to talk about too.
T.f. it’s easier for born again Asians to attribute all other religions or their former religion as limited/counterfeit since d missionaries over here is quick to emphasise that Jesus is THE ONLY Way, Truth and Life and confront d common Asian mentality of reducing God to a commodity where u cud change your God/religion if there’s profit to be made and abandon when it becomes inconvenient.
Ex-Altar Boy. GBU.
When you have been wounded deeply by an organization it is very hard to see that there is anything good in it at all. I understand why people dislike the Catholic church. But the RC church didn’t particularly harm me so I’m a little indifferent to some things. On others I suspend judgment. There are some really great writings in the early church fathers.
Thanks for your remarks.
I was speaking with a person who is very committed to an eastern religion. They told me that “The creator is not the supreme being.” and “There is a principality over the creator.”
My response to them was this: “That’s exactly what satan would like you to believe.” Lucifer was jealous of God and rebelled. Lucifer wanted to be above its creator, which is why it became satan. If the eastern religions truly teach that the creator is not the supreme God, then they are ruled by satan. Any “miracle” that happens through an eastern religion is a deception and is not of God. There is no other answer for this.
As Christians, we must pray for the conversion of souls from pagan and eastern religions to the Truth, who is the Holy Trinity, i.e. the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Contrary to what many want us to believe, the god(s) worshiped by non-Christians is not the same God whorshiped by Christians. Notwithstanding certain extraordinary exceptions that might or might not exist, to believe one can enter the Kingdom of the Father by any religion other than Christianity is heresy.
Perry,
You rightfully said “Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” is a serious matter. It’s unforgivable.
In the Roman Catholic Church, from the early christians up to the present, miracles do happen. Miracles are work of the Holy Spirit Whom Christ promised to send to teach the Church what to do and remind Her of all that He said. Blaspheme an authentic miracle, blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
Take for example the “Miracle of Lanciano”. In the 7th century of so (No protestant churches then), a Basilian priest who did not believe that the bread, the white host that priests consecrate in the mass and the wine, do really become the body and blood of Christ got a surprise of his life when the host he consecrated turned to human flesh and the wine to human blood. This flesh and blood were preserved (without preservatives) and are now stored in the Church of Lanciano in Italy. They are still there for anyone to see. Several scientists have examined them, mostly to establish that it is a hoax. The flesh and blood are as fresh as fresh meat in the market. The findigs of the scientists are that the flesh is human flesh, muscles of the core of the human heart. The blood is human blood. It has coagulated into 5 globules of different sizes, fresh as fresh blood of a chicken just dressed. (Didn’t Jesus receive 5 big wounds?) Scientist weighed the blood. The weight of one globule is the same weight as the weight of the other 4. Two has the same weight as the other three. Whichever way they mix up the globules for weighing, they come up with the same weight. A big globule has the same weight of a small globule. Scientist are baffled. How can this be?
On the night before he suffered, Jesus took a bread, broke it and gave to his disciples and said: Take this all of you and eat it for this is My Body which will be given up for you. Then He took the cup and gave it to his disciples and said: This is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant which will be shed for you for the remission sins. Do this in memory of me.
That is exactly what the Catholic Church is doing, consecrating both bread and wine in memory of Jesus in keeping with the new covenant. And we believe that the consecrated bread and wine is the real body and blood of Jesus Christ as the miracle of Lanciano attests. Lanciano is just one of those bread and wine turned into flesh and blood miracles. There are hundreds of them. This adds one to your documented miracles. If you wish to add another one, look for Julia Kim, a Korean. Ask her or trail her while receiving communion and you may have a first hand document of a Eurcharistic Miracle.
Now, if the Roman Catholic Church is faithful to the covenant, which I’m sorry to say fundamenlist and evangelical, and protestant churches do not do (since it is purely a Catholic ritual and by doing so they would look like catholics copycats)can she be accused correctly, rightfully, and justly of being a non christian church or worse a satanic group, as Anna did? The fact is history tells the Roman Catholics are the original christians.
Which is more christian, to be faithful to the covenant with Jesus or to dismiss the covenant? This begs for an answer, from Anna specially.
For us Roman Catholics, every mass is a miracle because in every mass, the bread turns into the real body of Jesus, the wine into His real blood. We believe they are truly the body and blood of Jesus. In each tabernacle Jesus is bodily, physically present that is why we bow and kneel in the church to revere Jesus. He, the Emmanuel, is with us. “I shall be with your till the end of time”.
Just like you, we want to have eternal life Jesus promised. Jesus said: He who eats my body and drinks my blood shall have life everlasting. He who does not eat my body and drink my blood has no life in him.
What do you think will happen if one does not eat the body and drink the blood of Jesus Christ, Perry? And to Anna, based on these words of Christ can you claim that you have “Life” in you?
constantino
Interesting write-up at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Lanciano
I take communion regularly, as Jesus commanded. I’m unsure of the Catholic doctrine of “transubstantiation” but I doubt one’s exact beliefs about this are necessarily relevant.
Dear Perry,
It is very very difficult to believe in transubstantiation. It is one hardest thing to believe in. It takes great faith to do so. What with the modern world’s rationalism. Isn’t this the reasons why when Christ comes back, He will find no faith on earth?
Well, we will be millions on earth who have faith in Jesus Christ, Catholics, Protestants, whatever when he comes back. Why will he say “will I find faith”.
To take Jesus’ words “This is my body, this is my blood” with an innocense of a child, it will not be difficult to believe in transubstatiation.
Eucharistic miracles have already substatiated them.
constantino
The Kingdom of Heaven is coming, ready or not.
Constantino, it is more than “very difficult” to believe in “transubstantiation” – the word you use to hide the true essence of this practice of CANNIBALISM – it is IMPOSSIBLE!
Spare me your feigned piety in looking down upon a poor “misguided one” such as me and actually FACE the Truth for once in your life!
How Catholics hate the sight of Jesus of Nazareth and do all they possibly can to mutilate Him over and over so that just as the Scripture in Isaiah says, He was so badly beaten that he was “UNRECOGNIZABLE.”!
Your word, “Mass” even MEANS “sacrifice” and so you sacrifice the Lord over and over at every church service – then go and eat His flesh and drink His blood!
It is REALLY time you woke up Constantino and STOP leading God’s people into such VILE contempt!
No more “Mrs Nice-Guy” for you have seriously overstepped the mark here and I will not allow your lies to continue uncontested!
If YOU wish to stay in such darkness and apostasy, then so be it. Why should I try and stop you? But you will NO LONGER spread this poison any further and I stop short of placing a curse upon you even as My Lord says, “Blind leaders of the blind, let them alone.”
TWO MAIN ISSUES
1. Are you God? Have you ever experienced righteous anger? And if not, why not? The Scripture says, “be angry and sin not.” How do you know what the Holy (yes, HOLY) Spirit is saying to me and what He is seeing? What pray tell is HOLY about “transubstantiation”??
I work with a lady who is Catholic and I would not dream of being so “hard” on her, you know why? Because she is an humble woman who doesn’t promote herself as any authority or teacher on the things of God and doesn’t try to convince me or anyone else that her religion is the true religion which we must all follow and anyone who disagrees is wrong or worse, from the enemy.
On the other hand, here we have such enormous error promoted by some people who are so convinced that they could never be wrong who, have no love of the truth or the Word of God, eagerly trying to convert other people to their unbiblical and unholy nonsense. They are setting themselves up as great authorities and teachers of the Word of God and are actually WRONG, thus LEADING others astray!
If you don’t believe me (and my “attitude”) then please take notice of the Lord Himself when addressing such false teachers for He was in nowise soft on them because of the poison they spread. If you can’t handle me with the little bit of Light that I have, how do you expect to be able to stand before the King of Kings and Lord of Lords who IS The Light? For He says in another place, “If therefore, the light in you be darkness, how great is that darkness?” This means that there is a darkness that MASQUERADES AS LIGHT. Mary is called the LIGHT!
It is no use trying to justify a false stance by saying that Jesus was addressing “Pharisees” and there are no “Pharisees” these days. Oh yes there are. Pharisees were a TYPE, very much alive and well today and not a title like Monsignor or Pastor etc
• Thus saith the Lord, “But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! [Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. [Ye] fools and blind: for whether [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? … Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets… [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (Portions of Matthew 23:13-33)
And the apostle Paul?
“But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
Then Saul, (who also [is called] Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, [thou] child of the devil, [thou] enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? And now, behold, the hand of the Lord [is] upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.” (Acts 13:8-12)
Shall I remind you of the preaching of John the Baptist?
Shall I remind you of Elijah and the prophets of Baal?
But I am not John the Baptist I hear you say. Of course I am not John the Baptist but the same Holy Spirit is in me and the same message of Elijah, “Prepare the way of the Lord”.
It is written that “we are members of His (Jesus’)body of His flesh and of His bones” with the same Blood running through our veins!
And you are telling me that people will not believe in the Lord if I preach as I do??
ANYONE on the side of Truth will. “If you do not sound the trumpet clearly, who will get ready for battle?”
2. It is written, “Whoever goes beyond the teaching of Christ DOES NOT HAVE GOD WITH HIM.”
Firstly, let me ask where “my” stand goes beyond the teaching of Christ?
Secondly, let us examine whether the following Catholic doctrines/teachings/practices are WITHIN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST. Please respond with Scriptures promoting or endorsing the following. If the Sword is the Spirit which is the Word of God”, then our gauge of Truth must also be the Word which is the “teaching of Christ”:
My research and experience reveal that the following Catholic teachings are indeed “beyond the teaching of Christ”
• Rosary – Nowhere found in either Old or New Testament. Not mentioned as important by either Jesus or any Apostles.
• Making, carrying, kissing statues – “Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 26:1)
• Transubstantiation – “That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (Act 15:29)
“For [it is] the life of all flesh; the blood of it [is] for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh [is] the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.” (Leviticus 17:14)
God does not contradict Himself in this next verse “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day(John 6:54)… It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.”(vs63)
• Praying to the dead on behalf of the living. Yahweh says, “And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.” (Isaiah 8:19)
• Having ONE MAN as the final authority on what God is saying. Jesus says, “The prince of this world is coming and he has NOTHING in Me.” OFFICIAL CATHOLIC DOCTRINE reveals that the POPE, as he is being “crowned” has prayers said over him and the following is also said, “THOU ART PRINCE OF THE WORLD” and Jesus says he has NOTHING in Him!
• A Catholic’s Father is the Pope (Pope= father). Jesus says, “And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.” (Matthew 23:9)
A Catholic’s MOTHER is Mary. Jesus asks, “Who is my mother? Those who do the will of My Father are my mother and brother and sister.”
• Worshipping the Queen of Heaven. The Word says, “ The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead [their] dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger” (Jeremiah 7:18)
• The “species” (presence) in the so-called “tabernacle” behind the altar in the church. As if Jesus actually RESIDES in a little box at the front of the Catholic churches. (But,THIS is exactly what you are trying to convince us of!) The Scripture says that “You are the Temple of the Holy Spirit” for He is God of the Living. Do you think that He is a genie in a bottle that can be taken out and shoved back in the bottle at your will?
• Going to a “priest” for “confession” but God’s Word says, “Confess your faults one to another”
• Priests not being allowed to marry. The Word of God says, “” ‘The high priest, the one among his brothers who has had the anointing oil poured on his head and who has been ordained to wear the priestly garments, must not let his hair become unkempt [fn]or tear his clothes…’The woman he marries must be a virgin.(Leviticus 21:10,13)
• Peter being the “rock” whose BONES are reportedly buried underneath the Basilica in Rome because Jesus said, “Upon this rock I will build My church”
You, along with all the other Catholics have completely misunderstood Jesus’ words about the rock. The rock is the faith coming directly from the Father and not from any man. Once again, true to character, your church focuses on PART of a Scripture and then invents a doctrine to suit themselves. Please read all of this portion of Scripture. Jesus was initially asking the disciples “WHO DO MEN SAY THAT I AM?”
Then turning to Peter, “WHO DO YOU SAY THAT I AM.”
It was Peter’s response “I say that you are the Christ the Son of the Living God” that Jesus applauded because it didn’t come to Peter by the words of another human being (“Chinese Whispers” is fraught with error)but because the Father Himself had revealed this.
And you really expect me to believe that the rotting bones of a physical man, buried underneath the physical Vatican is what is meant above when “God is Spirit”?
• Mary’s “immaculate conception” and “assumption” The Word says, “For there is none that is good, no not one. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” This was written AFTER Mary was born and no exception to her name was ever mentioned.
• Infant christening – All cases in the New Testament of BAPTISM (not Christening) were adult people who had their own reasoning mind with which to make an informed decision and know exactly what they were doing and Who they were following.
This is by no means an exhaustive selection of Catholic doctrines for there are FAR MORE THAN “8 LIES”. So now as requested Constantino, please tell us all here how these bear resemblance to the “TEACHING OF CHRIST”.
If you cannot demonstrate that your Church is in keeping with the teaching of Christ, then as the Word says, you do not have God with you and so I shall not listen to your claims.
Anna, I started reading this and already I have to answer:
1. Catholics do NOT hate the sight of Jesus. Churches MUST have a crucifix, reminding us to be grateful that Jesus died for our sins, in the center of the front wall. In addition, there are 14 “stations of the cross,” each with a figure of the suffering Savior. There often are other pictures, statues, etc. of Jesus.
2. The word “Mass” does not mean “sacrifice” but “dismissal,” from the old ending of the Latin Mass, “Ite, missa est.” It is also related to the word “mission;” at the end of Mass we are all sent to our individual missions to bring the Gospel (good news of God’s forgiving love) to the world. We are sent to “love and serve the Lord.”
3. You quote Scripture in opposition to the Catholic church, but perhaps you are not aware that Catholic worship and life are immersed in Scripture: the Mass is full of excerpts–“The Lord be with you,” throughout. “Glory to God in the highest” is sung before the readings. Then follow five Scripture readings, from the Old Testament, the Psalm response, the Epistles, the “Alleluia” at each end of a Scripture verse, followed by the Gospel. At the center of the Mass is the “Consecration,” which repeats Jesus’ Eucharistic prayer at the Last Supper and carries out his command to “Do this in memory of me.” Then, the Lord’s Prayer. I’m sure I’ve forgotten others.
Also, priests and bishops are required to pray the “Liturgy of the Hours,” formerly known as the “Divine Office,” daily. This year long prayer, designated for different times of the day, is composed of many Scripture readings, hymns, and prayers. Monks pray it together, sometimes singing it. Lay people are also urged to pray this way if possible.
Interestingly, the “Rosary” was developed centuries ago as a substitute for this method of prayer, in recognition that most people at the time couldn’t read the Office. Note that the Rosary is composed of 50 “Hail Marys,” which begin with the angel’s salutaion to Mary about the birth of Jesus, and 5 “Our Fathers”–the Lord’s Prayer. Each decade (15 altogether) is accompanied by a meditation on the life of Jesus–joyful, sorrowful, and glorious. So, you see, there is no competition between Church worship and Scripture. A devout Catholic may not be able to quote chapter and verse, but is thoroughly acquainted with God’s Word.
I think you would find the Mass, the Office and the Rosary very compatible with your search for God’s inspiration in your life.
By the way, do you ever sleep?
Dear Anna,
I wish to respond to all the issues you raised against the Roman Catholic Church. But I’ll take them up one by one.
On sacrificing the Lord over and over again. Here, your understanding on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is off tangent. In the Holy Mass, you cannot see Jesus being dragged by the priest celebrant and the churchgoers and scourged, beaten, and crucified again, if that’s what you mean. What the priest and the faithful do is to “REMEMBER” the sacrifice Jesus did for you and me. He commanded this during the last supper, eating the bread and drinking the wine which is His Body and His Blood. He said, DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME. This “DO” was being done by the apostles in the “breaking of bread” and is being done today IN THE MASS. While reading this, this very moment, know that the bread and the wine is being consecrated into the body and blood of Jesus Christ IN MEMORY of his sacrifice in some part of the globe. This is the “perpetual sacrifice” spoken about by Daniel. Know also that when this perpetual sacrifice is removed, Jesus will return to the world with all His wrath on humanity who no longer observe the COVENANT he bequathed to humanity. You are one of those who work against keeping the COVENANT.
The Roman Catholic Church, by doing this, obeys Jesus’ command, DO THIS. The Church keeps the COVENANT. Now if your church is not doing it then your church is not obeying Jesus Christ. When one disobeys, one rebels. Learn about the spirit of rebellion and see if you are not under its spell.
Anna, meditate on this.
Constantino
Dear Anna,
Jesus Christ must be a cannibal. The Jews thought so when he started saying he is the bread of life which came down from heaven and insisted that his flesh to true bread and his blood true drink and they who who do not eat his flesh and drink his blood will not have eternal life. The Jews were so scandalized by this that they cease following him.
Are you scandalized too, Anna?
Constantino
Dear Anna,
In the Catholic Church, there is a magisterium that is soley devoted to studies of scriptures and traditions of the Church since its very beginning. The scriptures and traditions are searched so that any teaching that the church will come out with in response to the changing minds of the changing world will be faithful to the scriptures and to the traditions of the early christians, the teaching of the Church Fathers. It is an office called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. It does nothing else but to look for errors in whatever the church will teach. No ordinary people in that office. They are biblical scholars with extensive education and training from greatest universities in the world. They are scientific minded and mind, you, hard headed too because they aren’t easily detracted from conservatism. I believe that if the Roman Catholic Church has such an office, then we have less chance of committing errors in faith.
I’ll therefore stick my head with RC and not be swayed by you unless you can also show me that your sect has similar office peopled by scholars with well rounded education and training on scriptures and traditions. ( I expect your will react on “traditions”. I’ll hear from you on this.
constantino
constantino sawan
John7:49 But this crowd that does not know the Law are accursed people.”
(Johannes 7:14-15) When by now the festival was half over, Jesus went up into the temple and began teaching. 15 Therefore the Jews fell to wondering, saying: “How does this man have a knowledge of letters, when he has not studied at the schools?”
Acts4:13 Now when they beheld the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were men unlettered and ordinary, they got to wondering. And they began to recognize about them that they used to be with Jesus.
Also the people that enforced ‘Bible critisim’ are people that have studied on the ‘finest’ universties. But when you folow them because you don’t have enough knowledge to encounter them, you shouldn’t have this discution, because there would be nothing left to discus. the bible should be reduced to 1001 farytales.
It’s the fruits that the tree brings up that tell you if you have the true religan
Dear Anna,
You are taking things out of context. Please be more scholarly. On “The
Bones of St. Peter” please browse on the topic with same title in the internet. It is ten fingers away from you. Read it and come back afterward and comment again after you have read it.
Thank you.
Ok constantino I will check this one. But it is a litle bit cheap to take one out where you think she makes a mistake or you can put things in your favor. i like to have an answer on all statements. Nevertheless I disagree with the way Anna put things, she has a lot of correct points. I am sorry when it hearts you but it is true.
The problem Anna and some others have, they don’t give an alternative. When you are sole you have a problem (exept you are schysophrenic (sic)) with Pauls comandment in:
Hebrew 10:24-25 And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, 25 not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near.
Constantino. Yes i find it impossible to believe that, especially when all i ever tasted was wine from the cup and biscuit from the plate! Is Jesus using a metaphore here? Like when he said “I am the door” He plainly did not mean a literal door with hinges and a door knob! To me now that i am filled with His Spirit – the bread is His Word and the wine is His Spirit The Gospels are full of metaphores “He spoke to them in parables – and without a parable He did not speak to them!” A parable is just a metaphorical story.
Dear Michael,
I agree with you Christ speaks in metaphors. It is hard for us to tell exactly what he meant. That is why reading the scriptures needs guidance from more knowledgeable people. However the RC do not only consider scriptures as the basis of faith. There is the tradition of the Church which they faithfully follow. Such tradition is the Holy Mass, the breaking of the bread done by the apostles and handed down by the Church to our generation. Paul teaches that eating the bread unworthily brings condemnation. If the bread is mere bread and wine mere wine, why would unworthy reception bring condemnation? This is because the tradition of the apostles says, once consecrated, the bread and the wine becomes the true body and blood of Jesus Christ. The RC is just keeping the beliefs of the apostles.
Constantino
Dear Perry, please do not be so blase about the things of God. You doubt that one’s exact beliefs about this (transubstantiation) are relevant??
You may be unsure of the doctrine, but please allow me to enlighten you because we are strongly commanded to, “Come out of Babylon My people! …Lest you share in her sins, lest you partake of her plaugues.”
This abhorrent practise and belief is from a totally misquoted, misunderstood, misrepresented and mistaken interpretation of Jesus’ words in John 6 regarding eating His flesh and drinking His blood.
This doctrine is the doctrine of CANNIBALISM at it’s worst (at least the Church of Satan doesn’t do it in the Lord’s name!)
The catholics TRULY AND UNEQUIVOCABLY BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE EATING THE LITERAL HUMAN FLESH of Jesus and DRINKING HIS LITERAL HUMAN BLOOD! It is WE (the “protestants”) who have got it so “wrong”!
THIS, was one of the greatest issues that “split” the Church at the Reformation
Anna,
This cannibalism thing also split Christ’s followers. Sad to say many left Jesus thinking what he taught was cannibalism. Jesus asked his apostles, what about you, will you leave also.
Luther, the father of reformation, did not intend to abolish the Holy Mass. In fact some protestant denominations do celebrate this. Only the reformists madly antagonistic with papacy (for political and economic reasons) did do away with the Holy Mass and everything Catholic.
Anna, it seems that you take only biblical passages that suits your thinking. You rationalize other passages that do not conform to your conviction. Review over and over the passages on the flesh and blood thing, the last supper, and pray on them. The Holy Spirit might enlighten you.
I believe Jesus was serious about his body and blood discourse. He even ordered to do it in his memory. It is his covenant with his people.
Constantino
Constantino,
You are simply “foaming up your own shame”, but please keep going, for in so doing, you are revealing PRECISELY what your religion REALLY believes and so people on this forum will soon see that it is not a case of me just having a “bee in my bonet”, but that I have a REAL case against the Roman Church.
It can only be that satan has blinded your eyes, for Scripture is so very clear – especially on this issue of “transubstantiation” (a Catholic term – not supported by or found anywhere in Scripture)for Jesus says to you plainly, “The flesh counts for NOTHING, it is the SPIRIT that quickens and gives life…My words ARE SPIRIT and they are life.” Now, it is you who needs to take a good hard and honest look at what is being said.
Having actually BEEN in the situation where I bore the Cross and ate His flesh and drank His blood (SPIRITUALLY) I can tell you I know exactly why the crowds left and went away. BECAUSE IT IS TOO HARD TO FOLLOW THE TRUE JESUS AND ENDURE THE “BAPTISM OF FIRE” that goes with it (THIS is what He means Constantino)It is too hard (and they SAID it was too hard). He is saying that WITHOUT this SPIRITUAL baptism of fire, persecution, the loss of everything, a man has “no life in HIMSELF”. It is ONLY through the FIRE that tears through our lives in our toe to toe battle with the enemy thus “FOLLOW ME” that we have ANY life!
Are you so foolish to take the allegories and parables at face value and literally??
He says, “I Am the door” “I am the gate” He is the “Lamb of God” and the “Lion of Judah”
So now, Jesus IS a “door”? Made of wood and hinges and nails?
So now, Jesus IS a “gate”? Made of wood and hinges and nails?
So now, Jesus IS a “lamb”? Covered with wool, having horns and hooves?
So now, Jesus IS a “lion”? With a mane of hair, claws and sharp teeth??
You are telling someone here who bears the Testimony of Jesus and has carried the same Cross so I know (experientially)what the Scriptures mean – this is God’s express intent. “To know You(experientially)the One True God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent.”
If you are so sure that Jesus intends to make a LITERAL/PHYSICAL example of “do this in remembrance of Me.” thenn the whole Catholic Church is WRONG again, because if you REALLY BELIEVE THIS, then you MUST (to be able to “Follow Me” – AFTER being crucified and resurrected)LITERALLY DIE ON A CROSS and wear a crown of thorns and be tortured like He was. DO YOU OR ANY OTHER CATHOLIC dare do this?? Do you endure ANY pain for His sake??
Or, is it the Catholic Church that HISTORICALLY and PREDICTABLY DO THIS TO OTHERS?? YOU be the judge of this.
But of course, once again, the Scriptures tell us what is REALLY going on and it is written, “For spiritual things are FOOLISHNESS to the natural (carnal) man for they are spiritually discerned.”
“God is spirit” and “FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT ENTER HEAVEN” and these are obviously FOOLISHNESS to you.
Constantino, you have been lied to all your life. And what is worse, you have believed the lies. What is even worse still is that you stubbornly hold on to lies and try and convince others that the lies are TRUE!
“Stubborness is as the sin of idolatry and rebelliousness is as the sin of witchcraft.”
“Satan is a liar and the father of lies. When he speaks his truth, he speaks a lie.”
“If the light in you be darkness, how great is that darkness?”
Finally, PLEASE support the issues I raised in my last email about the Roman Catholic practices GOING BEYOND the teaching of Christ. The truth IS, you CANNOT. Because they are COMPLETELY UNSUPPORTED BY SCRIPTURE AND DO INDEED, “GO BEYOND THE TEACHING OF CHRIST.” Therefore, you do not have God with you.
Anna,
I’m tired of your character judgments, saying things like “The truth IS, you CANNOT.” and “these are obviously FOOLISHNESS to you” and ‘It can only be that satan has blinded your eyes” and “Therefore, you do not have God with you.”
Speaking as a Christian I think you are going deep into the realm of judging others in a way expressly forbidden by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. And in more general terms this kind of accusatory language greatly weakens your argument. It just makes you sound insecure.
He can demonstrate what he can or cannot do. Anna, stick to facts. Stop typing in caps. Stop making personal accusations and stick to facts or I will cancel your access to this blog. The same goes for *everyone else* in this conversation.
Perry Marshall
Anna,
What Perry has said is totally true.
But it is very normal for someone who doesn’t believe Jesus as God, as you said (Jehovah witness).
Jer. 17:5 “Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.” -> If you trust Jesus as only a man, then you are cursed; if you put your salvation on a man’s hand, you are cursed.(note: it is an ‘and’ not an ‘or’; I mean: ‘Cursed be … and … and …’)
And it’s very easy also to not obey a man, than to not obey God, that’s why, you don’t obey Jesus’ word:
Matt. 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
If you obey this, you will be (according to the context) like a lamb (vulnerable not aggressive), a dove (harmless not hurtful), a serpents (wise, not trying to make the point with CAPITAL words)
What I believe is, since I pray for you: Those God’s word won’t come back to Him until it finish His mission (Is. 55:11)
Peace be with ya’ll!
Dear Anna,
You are being dishonest. You can read in the 4 gospels the spat between Jesus and the Jews on His claim that his body is true food and his blood true drink. He didn’t budge. He let those who won’t believe him go. He reiterated this when He established the NEW COVENANT on the bread and wine, “MY BODY AND MY BLOOD”.
Too bad, you severed your covenant with Jesus by not doing as he said. But it is not too late. You still can eat his body and drink his blood. Take the communion again. This way your eyes will be opened as the eyes of the disciples walking with Jesus to Emmaus were opened and recognized Jesus when He broke bread with them.
constantino
Constantino
Anna,
Again, you missed the point. What Jesus commanded to “do” is not to carry a cross and be crucified on it as understood by you. He commanded, do this “IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME”. What He commanded was to remember Him and how he suffered to save us. That way there is always that gratefulness, thankfulness in our hearts.
That is why the remembrance is called by the Catholic Church as Eucharist, meaning thanksgiving. It is a thanksgiving to the Father for what Jesus did for salvation of humanity.
In our culture, there is a saying: one who does not look back from where he came cannot reach his destination.
If we do not look back at the sacrifice made by Jesus for us on the cross, how can we appreciate that most heroic deed Jesus did to save us? If you do not look at the sacrifices made by your parents to raise you to be a good person, how can you appreciate their love?
While you look at the Holy Mass and the Eucharist with malice, we look at it with love. Who is evil then, you or the catholics?
constantino
If you are so sure that Jesus intends to make a LITERAL/PHYSICAL example of “do this in remembrance of Me.” thenn the whole Catholic Church is WRONG again.
The true Lord Jesus Christ only died and shed His blood once, so its doubtful that there was enough blood Scripture does it say that He will perform some sort of “miracle” at every mass to make this conversion. It does say however, that the Holy Spirit indwells all True Believers when Jesus does indeed come to live inside the person.
For some people, every time they see a movie made in remembrance of a tragic love affair, – say Romeo and Juliet, tears well up in their eyes. It is only a movie, but the tears are real and to them, Romeo and Juliet becomes real every time.
Jesus says that it is all a matter of faith. If you ask God for something with faith, it will be given.
When Jesus asks the seas to calm down, they obey.
With faith, if you ak a mountain to move, it will move.
With faith, if you ask for the healing (physical or mental, or spiritual) of a sick or crippled person, he will be healed if he also has faith that he will be healed.
Jesus has shown that this works, and He also said that man can do even greater things if he has faith.
You cannot be a Christian or do what Christ did if you do not have faith.
Faith is not something that can be seen, or measured, or weighed, or something that can be made into tablets and fed to unbelieving skeptics.
Dear Eduard,
You have an open mind. Keep it. An open mind is like a glass. When it is filled up, all one has to do is pour the glass in a larger vessel and the water is saved. If one does not pour the water in a larger vessel, the water spills.
Please let me know what you think when you have checked on the bones of St. Peter (?) Also check one the “Wonders of Guadalupe”. They have deep significance.
Thanks
constantino
It is no wonder that the Church is in the mess it is in.
HABITUALLY, people too often read just HALF a Scripture and try to convince people of some false doctrine because they ever-so-wisely quote the Word of God.
“When satan speaks his truth, he speaks a lie for he is a liar and the father of lies.”
Lets go now to John 6:63 which proceeds the verse you are trying to force down our throats about eating flesh and drinking blood. This is abhorrent to the Lord!
John 6:63 “…It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. Please go back and read this whole portion of Scripture right from when the Jews wondered how He(Jesus)could give them His flesh to eat.
Are you going to be telling Jesus at the Judgment that He is wrong and you are right and that we are to become CANNIBALS for His sake???
Why don’t you open your eyes and READ (and BELIEVE)what He says, when He says, THE FLESH PROFITETH NOTHING…and…MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT…
“God is Spirit” and we are to worship Him is Spirit and in Truth.
Believers in this “doctrine” have fallen for the same misinterpretation of the Lord’s words as the Jews who boldy wore LITERAL/PHYSICAL BOXES strapped to their foreheads because God said He would write His Laws on the FOREHEADS! So out came the little boxes with the Law neatly tucked inside in “fulfilment” of this Word and strapped to their heads making their folly visible to all!
the bible is just a book of leyends created by humans so they can manipulate other people. Jesus was just an ordinary man like u and me we a high iq in those days. Its realy sad when u know that god has forgotten about us and even sadder if god where just a creation that we humans created to find a purpose in life. Just try to be friendly with other people that dont know much abut other topic be educated please
Anna,
What will you show me that you have not taken out context what Jesus says about flesh profiteth nothing. Was he referring to His flesh or to our flesh. Make the connection.
constantino
To what do you refer? What connection do you wish to make?
Why don’t we look at the discourse regarding “transubstantiation” in its entirety and just see what Jesus is saying:
“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard [this], said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.” (John 6:53-63)
He is clearly talking about a spritual Truth and says plainly that the “flesh counts for nothing”. The disciples murmered, because they were not spiritual and really thought that He meant this literally. The true Lord Jesus Christ only died and shed His blood once, so its doubtful that there was enough blood Scripture does it say that He will perform some sort of “miracle” at every mass to make this conversion. It does say however, that the Holy Spirit indwells all True Believers when Jesus does indeed come to live inside the person.
Dear Anna,
This is how I understood the words of Christ,” the flesh profiteth nothing”. Here Jesus intends to reiterate that the flesh is just a flesh and will someday turn to dust thus gain nothing. But his flesh is life because the Spirit of God, that quickeneth, is in His flesh, Jesus’ flesh which did not see corruption but was resurrected. When we eat Jesus’ flesh our flesh will have life because he is digested by our system and becomes integrated in our flesh. Therefore, Jesus, the life, is in us
and we are in Jesus. We and Jesus are united as one. Isn’t this a beautiful arrangement by a God who wants to live in us and we in Him? If we eat his body and drink his blood, he will resurrect us to eternal life because He, Jesus, is in our system.
That is why during consecration of the bread and wine, the priest says something like this: By the power of the Holy Spirit, turn this bread and wine into the body and blood of Your Son Jesus Christ. On the day that he was betrayed he took bread gave it to his disciples and said THIS IS MY BODY… and on the wine … THIS IS MY BLOOD… DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME.
It is here that the quickening of the Holy Spirit is done on bread and wine turning them into the body and blood of Jesus.
Surely Jesus did not take back what he said that his flesh is true food and his blood true drink. He wanted it to be the New Covenant with His people, the christians. Unfortunately, many turned their backs to the covenant.
What makes a difference in our understanding of these texts is the way we interpret the Word of God. One can interpret negatively thus inducing conflict in the Word of God and positively creating harmony in the Word of God.
Hope I made this clear, Anna.
“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Daer Anna,
This is hard to believe, but Do you mean to say that in the above para, Jesus is speaking of a spiritual flesh and spiritual blood?
Then, here is another difficult to believe statement from Jesus in Matthew 17:20:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, “Move from here to there” and it will move.
Is Jesus talking here of a spiritual mustard seed and a spiritual mountain?
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
He compares His flesh to Manna from Heaven. Was Jesus’ body only a spirit, Was Jesus not of real flesh and blood? Or was Manna also only spiritual? Were the Jews surviving in the desert on Spiritual Manna?
But to believe all the difficult to believe verses of Jesus, we need to have FAITH at least the size of a mustard seed.
These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard [this], said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.” (John 6:53-63)
He is clearly talking about a spritual Truth and says plainly that the “flesh counts for nothing”. The disciples murmered, because they were not spiritual and really thought that He meant this literally. The true Lord Jesus Christ only died and shed His blood once, so its doubtful that there was enough blood Scripture does it say that He will perform some sort of “miracle” at every mass to make this conversion. It does say however, that the Holy Spirit indwells all True Believers when Jesus does indeed come to live inside the person.
Dear Anna,
I believe the Roman Catholic Church has studied the scriptures more than any person or christian religion. It was the Roman Catholic Church that preserved all those books you read in the bible. It was the Catholic Church who chose which writings were inspired by the Holy Spirit in order to guide future christians on the true teachings of Jesus and the apostles. It was the Roman Catholic Church who protected by bible from being decimated by the barbarians. The bible did not just drop on your lap from anywhere. The Roman Catholic Church gave it to you. You must be grateful to the Catholic Church.
So, it would be conceit to think that you know more the scriptures than the Catholic Church.
constantino
If this is so Constantine, then they of ALL people have NO excuse for their evil teachings.
“Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.” (John 9:41)
MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT…
“God is Spirit” and we are to worship Him is Spirit and in Truth.
Believers in this “doctrine” have fallen for the same misinterpretation of the Lord’s words as the Jews who boldy wore LITERAL/PHYSICAL BOXES strapped to their foreheads because God said He would write His Laws on the FOREHEADS!
Dear Anna,
Yes GOD is SPIRIT, and the WORD is His SON, who is also SPIRIT. But Jesus, is “The WORD which became Flesh to suffer and die as a penance for all men’s sins.
Man cannot see or converse with SPIRITS.
Actions of spirits will be perceivable only if it is translated into material or flesh.
My ideas in my brain can be conveyed to you only throgh some material (air, wire, or computer, keyboard, or LCD screen etc. You can respond to me also only through some material.
So when Jesus says the wine is His blood, it becomes His blood as far as He and those who believe in him are concerned. If you do not believe Him, you cannot call yourself a Christian. If He says He is a door, you have to believe that He is a door. To a believer, the Jesus door is more real and eternal than your wooden door which will rot, or burn or be eaten by white ants, and Jesus’ wine blood is more precious and eternal and life giving than the blood flowing in your veins.
Perry,
I am a Roman Catholic. It is human nature to feel sad and even angry whenever ones religion is attacked by others. And I feel this now after reading Anna. But even as I am embittered by Anna’s harse judgement against the Catholic Church, I pray that Jesus will remove the scales from her eyes so she may see the light of truth. To help her, I would suggest she read the book “True Life in God” by Vassula Ryden. (I recommend this also for your reading, Perry. Seeing that you are a non judgemental person, this book may help you also appreciate more things). I would also suggest to Anna that she study history, specially history of the church so discover for herself which Church, among all the existing christian churches, was the Church established by Jesus. I say ignorance of history opens believers in Jesus to deceptive spirits.
You mentioned Fatima. It is only one of the thousands of the miracle in the catholic church. I also recommend a book “The Wonders of Guadalupe” (forgot the name of the author) so she may appreciate Mary more. I also wish to say one can never go too far honoring Jesus’ mother.
I believe you, Perry, can edify the Church more with your writings. Please continue to research and write and we will find ourselves one day in the same flock.
God bless.
Dear all, I am overviewing the forum until here. constantino it’s true that you can link the Catholic Church (CC) to the first century church. This however not proof that the CC has the aproval of God allmighty. You can link the Farisee and other priests of Jesus time on earth with the early priests of Moses time. But nevertheles were there fruits bad and they were abolished. The same thing is going on with the CC. To give one ‘tiny’ ex. If CC had have succeeded You and I wouldn’t talk about scripture now. Jesus said: Jhon 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. In staed of help the faithfull to examen is word, CC executed everyone that tried to translate the Word of God into the comon language of the people, and not only the translaters, the ditributors, the one that had such bible and the one that were reading such bible to try taking knwledge of the ONLY true God and his SON Jesus Christ. As you can read in revalation and other bible books and in Histhory. This tells nothing about dozens of pagan symbels that are used in the CC almost all going back to BABYLON, some are of satanic worshipping. Ok When I have more time I will show you that especially the CC is as masterpeace and origin of almost all other christian dominations to lack because they didn’t represent Jesus Christ. Anna the evergreat part of what you stated is correct and based on a good knowledge of the bible, but the way you put it, does me think of an expression of Perry ‘ Go tell them how really bad they are’. You doesn(t save poeple by blasting them into the corner and then say ‘Give everything up where you stand for 20Y, 30Y or even 50Years. You have to leave poeple into their dignity. When they are in defence they will not listen to you or even try to consider she mide have a point here. The only way to reach poeple is to ask them polied thinking questions is for ex. ‘If I understand you right,you believe that the Allmighty God, Jesus and the Holy spirit are one and the same? So yah How could Jesus said “18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.” If you are one and the same how could he then receive something that He always had posested.’ Poeple had to think and make there own conclusions. Perry you are doing good work with triing to proof that God exist, with the dna code and other stuff I follow you for a while. I am the guy that send you a mail that dna code is in the bible in psalms. The remark of one of the paticipants on the forum of the bacteria namely ‘The stoberant fly go’s into tumb with the corbs’ for here you have to known that satan is a master in the ‘game’ close but just not. In this case ther is something in the bible that says ‘Prophesie and other things will stop’. As always satan turns himself in somebody of the light (sic). But there is one thing that’s proven if it is out of satan or out of Jesus, its proven today that it can. So we can besure when Jesus rules and the paradise will berestored we can be sure that Jezus by the power granted by God will fullfill the prophesie ‘No habitant shal say, I am sick’ Greatings all, sorry for the long post Perry. But I wanted to sumerise until now.
Dear Eduard,
I am making a lot of friends by joining this forum. I feel happy in spite of differences in our beliefs. Happy too, to come into the defence of the Roman Catholic Church.
If the Roman Catholic Church can, with historical proof, trace its origin to Peter upon whom it was founded by Jesus, then it is THE CHURCH. Why? because Jesus himself assured that no gates of hell shall prevail against it. It does not need a theologian to tell the significance of this promise: no gates of hell shall prevail against it. It simply means, the church which He founded on Peter will last till the end of times. The church will not fade away into oblivion or into irrelevance. Though this journey to the end times was rough and tough because of the sin of division and tougher now that the same people who claim to be christians are throwing at each other venomous accusations. It is as if we christinas are turned into the image of the accuser, Satan,not in the image of Jesus Christ. We have thus become a scandal to non believers. Were there no division in the Body of Christ, the whole world would have been christianized by now.
I do not see any logic in some deductions that because the Church did use some practices of the pagans, it became a pagan church. It is a process of inculturization. The church grew out of the pagans. It did not grow much out of the Jews who mostly rejected Jesus. It grew out of the Greeks, the Romans, the Corinthians, the Thessalonians etc. who were pagans. Christ did not reject the Gentiles. They are, after all also human beings needing salvation. In fact, Jesus came to seek them more than the Jews. He came for sinners.
There is a perversion of truth in the accusations that the Church absorbed paganism. The fact is that the Church christianized the pagan practices. Only people with ax to grind against the Catholic Church to legitimize their illegitimate existence twist this fact. They should do so because their number would not grow unless they destroy the Catholic Church first to legitimize their existence.
I am glad that you agree with me that the Catholic Church has link to the first christians.
That is a first step into discovering the whole truth. Study further the Catholic Church. I assure you, you will want to be embraced by her motherly care.
Eduard, I suggest you pick a copy of the book, or browse in the internet: The Bones of St. Peter by Vincent (Evangelist) Walsh. It’s a detective story.
HEAR FROM YOU.
CONSTANTINO
Dear Eduard,
Even as some of the Pharisees were teaching errors and leading unrighteous lives, it did not make the Jewish religion a false religion. The same may happen to the leaders in our Church. Some may teach errors and lead double lives. But their errors and sins cannot make the Church founded by Christ a false Church.
Hope this clarifies. Thank you Eduard and keep an open mind.
It was not a few Pharisees that made mistakes it was the whole structure that was driven awa from doiing the will af our father. it was a few that recognised that Jesus was right and was the Christ, repend and were disciples. Before Josia time the livites performed literaly idolatry together with his father and grandfather. Do yuo say also it is not because some don’t do what is wright in the eyes of God that the whole Jewish religion is false. Check it in your bible what God tought of it. Also who survived 70 ad Jerusalem? Those that get out of the corrupt Jewish religion and believed Jesus. Now I am going to sleap, because it is 1:39 and really time for me. Ther are so many posts I can’t keep up with it :-( Greetings Eduardus
Regarding this statement: “If CC had have succeeded You and I wouldn’t talk about scripture now.”
I disagree with that statement. Conversely, if the CC had not succeeded, we might not be talking about “Christian” scriptures or would likely be talking about a very different set of scriptures, since the Holy Bible most Christians carry was originally assembled from books selected by the CC under Constantine I.
Nothing has happened, nor can anything happen, unless God allows it. Think about it. God is omnipotent, so there is no way around this. Therefore, the way things have evolved, including the church and Christian scriptures, have done so because it was God’s will. Perhaps, a difficult concept but is there another answer? Wouldn’t to say otherwise imply that God is not omnipotent? What a scary thought.
Is it important whether the Roman Catholic church or any other denomination, in and of itself, was successful or not? Perhaps, what is important is that Jesus Christ succeeded in His mission. Unfortunately, many did not recognize this and many still do not. I believe the very topic of the law of Leviticus that you bring up is important to understanding why Jesus was successful in accomplishing His mission. This law of sacrifice was given to the Jews by God. It was definitely not idolatry. Jesus stated that He did not come to abolish the law and that every letter of the law stands. Yet, He freed us from that law by his sacrifice, which fulfilled the law.
Regarding modern day Jewish religion, as I understand it, they still believe Jesus was a heretic. By this, it appears they cut themselves off from His redemption and salvation. This is far from being anti-Semetic. The Jews are our brothers and sisters, for whom we need to pray for their conversion to Christ. Because we are not to judge others, we cannot say for certain where they will end up if they refuse to repent that Jesus is the Messiah. Yet, Jesus did say that He is the only way to the Father.
Regarding: ““18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.” If you are one and the same how could he then receive something that He always had posested.”
Here is my understanding and I hope it helps you: For me, it makes more sense when we avoid trying to rationalize scriptures in purely human terms. Does a temporal relevance actually exist? I don’t believe so. But if so, then did Jesus say *when* He was granted all authority? Perhaps, it was before or at the beginning? Didn’t Jesus also say, “Even before Abraham, I Am”? It is correct to say that Jesus Christ always had the authority. The Holy Trinity is Truth. I bear witness to this. The triune God, The Father and His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, three separate persons in one God, is The only one true God who is the Alpha and the Omega; the One who was and is and will be. This is what I believe.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit; as it was and is and will be without end – Amen! :)
Perry and Constantino, if you (Constantino) are a ROMAN Catholic, then this is the MOST EXTREME form of Catholicism there is and ALL of what I have been saying is true and relevant! THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN
I-S their “saviour” “redeemer” “mediator” and MOTHER! This Mary is ALSO the mother of the FALSE jesus! So Constantino, “DARKNESS EXPOSE YOURSELF!”
May I remind you that I DID BEG for my sight and Jesus granted my request, removed the scales from my eyes and allowed me to know the Truth that set me free! You too, can know this same freedom, unless of course you love the darkness rather than the Light.
It is written, “The spiritual man judges all things” and so if you do not judge, you are showing yourself to be not spiritual. You HAVE no authority to judge, because Jesus has not GIVEN you that authority or revelation.
Have either of you read “The Immaculate Deception” on “my” website yet?
I have read more than my share of Catholic literature, now all I ask is for you to consider just this one of mine and compare EVERYTHING with Scripture.
As far as me being “harsh” goes. Have you read Revelation lately and how Jesus will deal with Babylon when He returns?? Better not be found in her when He comes back!
He said to me clearly in the English language, I Am coming back and you are to tell everyone you know to be ready.”
Sadly, you are NOT ready at this point.
Repent therefore, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.”
Anna,
You are falsely accusing us catholics of making Mary our redeemer, mediator, and saviour. She is our intercessor, not mediator, not saviour, not redeemer. There’s a whale of difference between intercession and mediation. I wrote about this difference in another section here. We ask her to pray for us for whatever petition we raise to God. Don’t you ask your friends to pray for you? Well, Mary is not just our friend, she is our mother. Notice our prayer to Mary: Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of they womb Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, PRAY FOR US SINNERS, now and at the hour of our death. Beautiful, isn’t it. Didn’t Mary say “all generations will call me blessed”. Is is this prophecy fulfilled in your church or in our church?
Hail, Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee is Angel Gabriel’s greetings. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of they womb is Elizabeth’s greetings. Biblical, aren’t they? Mother of God because she is the mother of Jesus who is God and Jesus gave her to us to be our mother in an ante mortem bequethal . Pray for us sinners is an entreaty of humility.
We do not say, Hail Mary, redeemer of the world, omnipotent mother, creator of the universe, source of our life, thus atrributing to her godship. Far from that! So why accuse us of worshipping Mary? Are you then rightfully accusing us of worshipping our beloved Mother of Jesus? Isn’t your attitude of accusing an an attitude of the devil, the great accuser? Which side are you on now?
Constantino
You quote the “Magnificat” here but this is not from Jesus at all. It is a Catholic invention intended to lead people away from pure devotion to God.
“Now at the hour of our death.”???
My dad WAS a devoted Catholic Constantino. On his deathbed, his “priest” told him that he had “nothing to worry about when he stands before God, Just wear your scapula and say the rosary.”
My dad was petrified with fear whilst he lay dying in the counsel of this wicked substitute for a shepherd. He had no peace whatever because the doctrine he was intrenched in (much of which I have read with my own eyes)taught him that he will see Mary when he dies and she will usher him to the presence of Jesus. This is the most diabolical and horrifying lie I have ever heard in my life. I also freeze with fear at the thought of this. Once a person is “safely” in Mary’s “arms” after death – if he has not been born again and not accepted Jesus as his personal Lord and Saviour – then it’s game over! This Mary will NOT take any such person to the side of God and the devil knows it!
Can YOU see the elephant in the room?
Of course Mary said, “All generations will call me blessed.” She didn’t say all generations should pray to her and exalt her above normal reason! The word “blessed” means happy. Don’t we count our blessings every day? (incidentally, a woman called, Jael in the Old Testament is “blessed ABOVE women” so if we want to be pedantic, then she is even better than Mary because Mary was just blessed AMONG women.
Jesus answered the woman who said how blessed Mary was who bore Him, by saying “Blessed RATHER are those who hear the Word of God and obey it.”
Why do you misinterpret Scripture here?
This Mary still had to be born again like all others who wished to enter Heaven. At the wedding at Cana where Jesus turned water into wine, Mary said to the people there ,”Do whatever He tells you.” That was Mary’s advice! It is written, “None is good, no not one. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” No exception to Mary ever mentioned. In fact, if you research the name Mary or Miriam in Hebrew, you will find that it means “(rebelliously)bitter”.
Mary gave birth to the physical Jesus but she still had to be baptised in the Holy Spirit/be born again, in order to bear the RESURRECTED Christ. The mere PHYSICAL part had little to do with her salvation. It is the “spirit which quickens and gives life.”
The Catholic teaching on this is blown up out of all proportion and wreaks of Hinduism where the wife of a deceased husband is exalted to goddesshood when offered as a sacrifice.
I have a normal, healthy respect for the woman who gave birth to the physical Jesus, but in all honesty I know also, what it is to be a “mother in Israel” for I too, am Jesus’ mother and filled with righteous anger like He is. This comes about BECAUSE we love. And have a love of the Truth.
“That you may know how to behave in the household of God which is the Church of the Living God, the pillar and foundation of the Truth”
The Accuser of the Brethren Constantino, accuses the Brethren ie: the True followers of Christ and the true Church – not Babylon the Great, mother of harlots.
Was the apostle Paul accusing the Brethren when he cursed the sourcerer? Was Jesus accusing the brethren when he called the Pharisees white washed tombs, was John the baptist when he warned those coming to him to be baptised “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to escape from the wrath to come.”? And these “pious looking” individuals were looking like they were very sincere and innocent by wanting to be baptised. John was not fooled and nor am I.
My issue is not with the True believers for I love them and give my life for them. But “in her(Babylon) was found the blood of prophets and of the saints and of all who had been killed on earth.”
Oh yes they do Constantino. I can show you many places where Mary has superseded Jesus in everything includng her blood being the most precious thing. If you had read anything on my website you wouldn’t be saying such things and would be much better informed.
There is much written in Catholic doctrine that blatanly claims that Mary IS redeemer, mediator and saviour. This is “official Catholic doctrine” published by the Catholic Truth Society which gets its information from the Papal Bulls and official statements from the Pope. Either you are being dishonest with yourself here or you are in the wrong place.
My attitude is not of the devil, why don’t you have the courage to search the Scriptures for yourself and not leave your salvation up to misled leaders who brainwash you with traditions which bear no resemblence to the teachings of the bible?
Why don’t you get it?
We are FORBIDDEN to pray to the dead! Yahweh detestst this and is very angry with people who claim to follow Him and persist in this practice.
“The dead are asleep and know nothing.” It is only Jesus of Nazareth who has actually risen from the dead to be the only mediator between God and men. Why is this so hard to understand?
My final comment here is either the Bible is wrong and I’m cleaving to the wrong God or the Catholic Church (and many “Protestant” Churches)do not resemble the faith set down in the Scriptures or there are no more Believers in Christ left in the world.
You decide.
Anna,
Jesus said, referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, God is not God of the dead but the living.
We pray to the living., we come to them, the spirits made perfect by the blood of the lamb.
Well, you can always twist the scriptures to suit yourself.
Talk to a heretic once or twice. If he does not listen, he is condemned by his own judgement.
A heretic is one who deviates from the teaching of the church. Since the RC is the original church, those who keep her teachings are not heretics. Those who do not keep them are.
constantino
Constantino, I hav e not a lot of time but I will give you the answers I promesed, but Iespect this not before half january. I have checked on peters Bones and I can tell you there is no such thing as prove, except you take the popes word as evidence. I have enough on that but it is rather much and I don’t know how to put it in attach or something. Now I wan’t to react that you several times refere to the CC or RC as teh origanal church. This assumption is not right. The original church are the apostels and elders en the first century disciples that formed the original church. The RCC is founded by constantin a Roman empire who for political reasons used the Christian curch, who has already infitred with a lot of Greek, Egytian and Roman philosophics. Roman empire + ‘Christianity’ = RCC anno 4° century. The ‘original church’ started in 33 AD not in the 4° century.
What is so hard to understand about the Word of God when He says, “For there is ONE God and ONE Mediator between men and God. The man Christ Jesus”?
Jesus answered the woman who said how blessed Mary was who bore Him, by saying “Blessed RATHER are those who hear the Word of God and obey it.”
Why do you misinterpret Scripture here?
Jesus told his followers “Very truly I tell you, all who have faith in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these,….” Does this mean the followers are greater than Jesus or their works are greater than Jesus’ works?
When a boy praises the performance of a singer, and if the singer responds by saying “If you practice well, you can become a greater singer than me”, does it mean that the boy definitely is or will be a greater singer?
Blessed Virgin Mary is the only woman (compare her with Eve) who unselfishly sacrificed herself, her reputation, and everything else for fulfilling the Will of God saying “Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy WORD….”
So when Jesus says “Blessed RATHER are those who hear the Word of God and obey it.”, is it not MARY He referring to?
No, it is not to Mary He was referring because the initial comment was “Blessed is the woman who gave you birth…”(THIS is Mary) but Jesus said RATHER “blessed are those (more than one) that hear the Word of God and obey it.”
To say that this is anything but a contrast to Mary is dishonest.
Dear Constantino and all,
I suspect that you are very interested in church history, so I would like to recommend an author, Karen Armstrong. I just finished reading her “A History of God, The 4,000 – Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam” She chronicles the milllenia of seeking, argument, reformation, and doubt, from the prehistoric to the “death” of God. I found it comforting to know that our struggle for wisdom is not new, but almost a part of human nature.
God bless us all, Joan
Anna,
Mary is sinless. The scriptures says, ” a body your prepared for me.” and that body was Mary’s. God cannot dwell in a bossom that is unclean with sin just as you won’t lay down your infant on a dirty cradle.
This is so logical and to twist this is foolishness.
Constantino
Constantino,
The Bible does not teach anywhere that Mary is sinless. The Bible does teach that baby Jesus was laid down in a dirty cradle in Bethlehem. It teaches that He was nailed to a cross and took on the sins of the world. I fail to see the logic in this statement. This is definitely one issue where I get off the Catholic bus.
Dear Perry,
Thanks for your comment. Perhaps study of genetics will help us evaluate our beliefs.
The scriptures says in the Hebrews, ” a body your prepared for me”. I believe there is very deep significance of this. There would be no need for preparation if the God can inherit a sinful human nature. The bible may not be explicit in stating that Mary is sinless but it is implicit in that “preparation of the body”. Think about it Perry.
Please quote this verse in Hebrews, in context.
Perry,
Before Jesus was born to Mary, He was among the Jews, in the “Ark of the covenant”. If you read all the rules the Jews and the Levite priests had to follow, in the Holy of Holies where the Ark was kept in their Temple, we can see that God cannot come in contact with filth- not that God will be affected, but that the filth will get burnt or exterminated. A Levite priest would get killed if he entered the Holy of Holies in a sinful or unclean condition. A rope was tied to his leg to pull him out if it ever happened, avoiding the risk
of sending another inside to bring him out.
In the Jewish belief, God cannot co-exist with sinful man. That is why the Jews could not accept Jesus as God. Since Jesus was born into Jewish belief, he had to follow all the rules of His adopted new country (society).
Jesus was the DNA of a pure breed of plant, and had to be kept sterile till it grew roots.
The seed around the pure single cell should be pure and strong enough to support and it during its initial stages, with a tough covering isolating it from the bacteria and pests outside.
So the cattle shed in Bethlehem had to be spiritually as sterile as a cell culture laboratory.
Tony,
I don’t find this to be at all persuasive in showing that Mary was sinless. She had two parents, right? How did she not get sin from her parents? I don’t see so much as a hint from the NT that anybody believed Mary was sinless. Where is a scripture to support what the church is saying on this? Jesus came into contact with all kinds of people and animals and they didn’t die. Why would touching his mother’s womb be any different?
Constantino, how are you doing bro?
1- Romans 3:10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;” – ‘no one … not even one’ -> not even Mary
Romans 3:20. “Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his (God’s) sight.” – ‘no flesh’ -> and Mary was flesh,
1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. – we, all of us, Mary included
2- As you said, Jesus needs a clean bed to lie down, that’s why He choses a virgin one to bear Him.
Matt. 1:23 “Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.” 25 “And [Joseph] knew [have sex with] her [Mary] not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.”
But when Jesus was out, then Joseph can come in, and make more kids. Why? follow. (no offence)
3- Jesus is the ‘Only begotten Son’ (John 3:16) of God, but the ‘firstborn’ (Matt. 1:25) of Mary and Joseph. Being a firstborn, doesn’t it imply that there is at least a second one? even if we do choose to believe that those brother and sister said in the Bible (Gal 1: 19; Mark 6:3 “Is not this [Jesus] the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? ” ) is just His cousin.
My point is:
– Jesus was born by a virgin (not a sinless one anyway, tell me the verse saying so, not a logic, but a Biblical verse, just like what I do)
– But that virgin was not said in the bible to not have sex for whole life
– But what is well said in the bible is his ‘brother’ (ἀδελφὸς – adelfós), even though the Greek language had the proper word for cousin (εξάδελφος – exádelfos)
-> So unless a biblical proof is given to me: I just say, saying that Mary was sinless is not biblical, it came out of human reasoning.
Anyway: If Mary was sinless, then Jesus was not dead for her, meaning that the ‘only way to the Father’ is not her way. So saying that Mary is at heaven, and at the same time, she was sinless can’t go together with the Holy Scripture.
Stay blessed.
Constantino,
If you will study the Bible carefully you will find that we all sinned in Adam, not Eve.Sin is transmitted through our fathers; our mothers do not contribute in this respect, though they themselves are sinners, having inherited it from their fathers. Jesus did not have a human father. Mary’s other children by Joseph were sinners.
Joan,
Thanks for the tip. Hope I can find the book here in our country. Have your read “True Life in God” by Vassula Ryden? In that book, God is speaking in first person to humanity. You can also browse the title in the internet.
God bless you too.
Anna,
Are you one hundred percent sure that the queen of heaven referred to by Jeremiah is Mary, the Mother of Jesus? Or was Jeremiah referring to queen of heaven worhipped by pagans?
Be sure about this. You may be hurting the Mother of Jesus thus hurting your Jesus.
There is a wrong process underlying in your interpretation of the Scriptures.
Be careful in your interpretation of the Scriptures or you might be deluded.
Constantino
Yes Constantino, I am absolutely certain that the Mary of the Catholic Church is the same Queen of Heaven as in Jeremiah.
The Catholic Mary is well known as being the Queen of Heaven and people call on her often – even today. Surely you know this?
And you are in error. It was not PAGANS who were guilty of worshipping both her and Baal in the Old Testament. If you read this again, you will see that it was Israel – supposedly Gods chosen people! “What has been will be again and what has been done will be done again. There is nothing new under the sun.” (King Solomon)
I AM a mother in Israel and a mother of the Lord Jesus Christ, that is how I can tell the difference between the rival goddess and what I and others like me represent.
This may all seem outrageous to you, but believe me God knows already – there are no surprises to Him. It is WE who have to come to terms with the Truth. We only have one lifetime to connect the dots, so to speak.
We are instructed to “put all to the test”. This I have done with your beliefs and the Catholic “faith”. You, on the other hand, have NOT put what I say and believe to the test. You would be wise to do so.
PLEASE read this thesis before you discard what I am saying!:
http://www.timetogetready.net/immaculatedeception/immaculatedeception.pdf
Dear Anna,
What the connection between Jeremiah’s queen of heaven and John’s woman clothed with the sun with twelve stars around her head and standing on the moon? None. You are simply picking verses here and there and interpret them as you like without any guide.
I tell you a story. The Aztecs in Mexico before the Spaniards came were sacrificing thousands of human beings to appease their god. The woman clothed with the sun with 12 stars around her head and standing on the moon appeared to a native who converted to Catholicism. To make the story short, her image was imprinted on the tilma of the native. That image is the image of the Virgin of Guadalupe. It is thru this image that milliuons of natives of Mexico and the South Americas left their demonic religion to embrance Catholicism and ask for baptism. Human sacrifice ceased. The natives knew how to read hieroglephics, at the sight of the image knew that their god is dead. The image simply conveyed the message that the Mother of a White God has conquered their blood thirsty god.
The image is still there in the cathedaral of Mexico. How it survived 500 centuries is a puzzle to scientists. Read the book “The Wonders of Guadalupe” you will be amazed what miracles the image wrought.
Constantino
Constantino, you still haven’t read “The Immaculate Deception”, so please do not try to discredit what I am saying in your attempt to divert the issue by saying, “You are simply picking verses here and there and interpret them as you like without any guide.”
This is altogether not true and if you read the following, you will see a much bigger picture. Why will you not read this?
http://www.timetogetready.net/immaculatedeception/immaculatedeception.pdf
Dear Anna,
The Catholic Church, who compiled all the books in the scriptures for you, has interpreted the bible for me 2,000 year ago. I am just echoing that interpretation to you. How long have you been reading the bible Anna?
Constantino
Dear Anna,
Just because you read there a queen of heaven in Jeremiah worshipped as godess by the pagans in his time, you say the queen of heaven in Jeremiah is the same as Mary. I find no logic in there. It is like saying that since my name is Constantino, I am the same person as Constantine the Great.
constantino
Constantino, “as a man thinketh in his heart, so he is.”
I am not so naive or ill-informed that I should just pick a Scripture ad nauseum and connect it with your Mary, just to prove a point.
Have you ever asked yourself why I am so persistent and strong in my approach? It is because I know something at the moment that you do not know and in this case, what you don’t know WILL hurt you.
You don’t find any logic here in “my” argument as it becomes blatantly clear with every message you send that you have no intentions of considering the facts in “my” website. Why do you not have the courage to at least open it and have a look? I am supposed to read all your Catholic writings, yet the very fact that you will not even consider this information indicates that you do not have a love of the Truth. If you did, you would be secure enough to double-check what you think you know and “test yourself to see that you are in the faith.” I am doing this all the time, because, “Let him who thinks he stands, beware lest he falls.”
Do you consider yourself the “very elect of God”? I wonder.
We are told that “many false prophets will arise and deceive, if possible, even the very elect of God.”
Therefore, if you are not the very elect, then you ARE deceived and if you ARE the very elect then whenever possible (if we let down our guard)then you WILL be deceived.
It is common Catholic practice and doctrine that Mary has many other titles. One of them IS the Queen of Heaven” Do you seriously not know this, or are you tryring to hoodwink others?
The Pope knows it well and good. Isn’t he your leader?
“You don’t find any logic here in “my” argument as it becomes blatantly clear with every message you send that you have no intentions of considering the facts in “my” website. Why do you not have the courage to at least open it and have a look? I am supposed to read all your Catholic writings, yet the very fact that you will not even consider this information indicates that you do not have a love of the Truth.”
I have already issued Anna a final warning that she is to stick to the facts and that this kind of personal character judgment is not tolerated. Anna, you are banned from this forum, not because I do not allow dissenting points of view but because you have refused to obey the rules. The rules say:
“Questions must be respectful, clear, thoughtful and on-topic – all others will be deleted by the moderator.”
Consider yourselves warned.
Anna,
You are doing the same thing, picking verses here and there and interpret them as it suits you. Are you aware of that?
As for me, I do not interpret the bible as it suits me. The Church do it for me. I am not conveying my own interpretation. I am conveying the interpretation of the Church.
constantino
Anna,
In the Roman Catholic Church, one proof of an authentic miracle is CONVERSION, turning in a new leaf so to say. That is, people who witness miracles turn from their evil ways and return to God by going to church regularly on Sundays, going to confession, receiving communion, doing good to others, leaving their addiction to alcohol,drugs, gambling, womanizing, and joining church activities, outreach, missions etc. In the Roman Catholic Church, miracles continues from Jesus Christ’s time, to the apostles, to the early christians up to present. He said, anyone who believes in him will do greater things than what He has done.
The mark of a counterfeit miracle is when NO ONE turns his/her life back to God and people who witness them just go on living their evil ways.
Miracles in our church are what make sinners come back to God. If Satan is the author of the miracles in the catholic church, why are many witnesses to the miracles turning their backs to Satan, from his evil ways? The miracle of the Lady of Guadalupe in 15th century converted millions Aztecs to Catholicism and stopped the practice of human sacrifice. This was how Latin America was christianized. The natives voluntarily asked for baptism after they witnessed the miracles of the image of Guadalupe. This can hardly prove that the Catholic Church is Satanic when the Church was the one who stopped the satanic rituals of the Aztecs.
It will do us christians good if you reflect pause and reflect on this.
constantino
Troy, what makes you think God won’t heal amputees?
“in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.” -1 Corinthians 15:52
Also…
“Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength.” -1 Corinthians 15:43
Plus…
“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…” -Revelation 21:1
And…
“He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” -Revelation 21:4
God’s time isn’t up, Troy. The best of God’s promises is yet to come.
Why would/should He?
As one who has MET the risen Christ, I am becoming increasingly more exasperated at the number of writers here who insist on MIXING UP Roman Catholicism and Christianity. Let this be an official statement on the matter.
– Catholics are NOT Christians! Their religion OPPOSES what our God teaches and mocks in His face with idolatry and even devil worship.
– History consistently writes on events and people who were blood thirsty CATHOLICS, and calls them “Christians” when in fact, they are a distinct and opposing group who have STOLEN the Treasures from God’s Holy Temple(like Nebuchadnezzar’s druken party in the Old Testament)and used these Treasures to lure gullible people into either receiving a COUNTERFEIT religion or REJECTING the Truth because of their abominations by thinking “they’re all the same”.
– It is the small minority group who DOES NOT get a hearing, but is actually MURDERED/PERSECUTED BY Roman Catholics, who held/hold to the True Faith that are heirs to eternal life.
– We have been given a brain with which to ASK, SEEK AND KNOCK and if we do not have a love of the Truth (“God is Truth and in Him there is no lie”)He Himself will send a strong delusion that they should believe the lie. “That they might all be damned, who believed not the Truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” God is not mocked. “What a man sows, that shall he also reap.”
In other words, the “plan” worked brilliantly! See, you are deceived into forfeiting your own eternal life by thinking that Catholics represent “God” (The Creator)and if I were you, if this WERE the true faith, I would reject it also.
Thankfully, there are still some of us left in this world who know THE Truth and continue to hold out the life-raft despite the opposition and lies.
At the end of the day, it is YOUR life at stake. The Lord Jesus Christ says, “Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved. Whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
Mock at your own peril, for the day will come when we shall ALL stand before His Throne and give an account of our lives to God. This is a certainty. If you think you can save yourself and that you are good enough to appease an implacable God, then poor you. Do you REALLY think that God will just wink at all the evil on earth and shrug His shoulders?…
Not likely. We shall ALL be raised from the grave to stand at the Judgment. The day of reconciling spiritual accounts is coming soon. Therefore, let wisdom prevail and “Seek the LORD while He may be found. Call on Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his ways and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to our God and He will have mercy on him for He shall freely pardon.”
– The TRUE Jesus Christ COMES IN HIS FATHER’S NAME. The FALSE/Catholic “Jesus” comes in his OWN name.
The True Jesus informs us, “Unless you believe I Am you shall surely die in your sins.”
I KNOW this to be a certainty, but at this point for those who mock, better to believe and it’s NOT true, than not to believe and it IS true.
Love and tears,
Anna
It’s interesting that in your last paragraph you treat your god with such little respect. Do you think that I can pretend to believe and God wouldn’t know any better? Can I trick God into thinking that I believe in him?
Some people, myself included, do not believe in God or any other god. It is unbelievable to me. If God created the universe, he must have created my brain and my environment which are the only things that I base my decisions on. It isn’t possible for me to believe something just because I want to.
I have a million dollars in my pocket and you can have it. All you have to do is to believe me and I’ll give it to you. Do you believe me?
This is the condemnation of the world, that Light has come into the world but men rather the darkness than the Light.”
Well Troy, you do have a choice here. You can either blatantly reject all that has been presented to you and the world about the Lord Jesus Christ, or you can give Him the respect He deserves and at least investigate for yourself whether He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Otherwise, you are condemning Him without an cause, not even giving Him an hearing and thus automatically fall into the same category as the Romans and Jews who physically crucified Him.
If someone says to you that an issue has eternal repercussions, then whether or not one believes this at the time, with any degree of wisdom, surely the issue is worthy of our attention and consideration?
Troy, you are absolutely right! Of course, we cannot “trick” God into thinking we believe when we do not.
Yes, God (Yahshua) DID create your brain and your environment. Therefore, you are expected to USE your brain to try and figure out what is going on. Yahshua (Jesus Christ – Yahweh is Salvation) says, “I have come to testify to the Truth. All those on the side of Truth hear My voice.”
I guess the bottom line is this. “God is Truth and in Him there is no lie.” If then we would seriously and earnestly desire to know the Truth and are just not content with things the way they are, searching for a more suitable place for the human race to live, then we would come to the Truth. “Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you.”
By blindly rejecting what Yahshua offers us is evidence of a spirit that is not concerned with the Truth, but in reality is content with and maybe even enjoys the lie instead. In this case, what can one do? It is up to you whether you value Truth and Life enough to make it a priority. I pray that you do.
Anna,
Good to know that you recognize the Pagan origins of Christianity, as reflected in the Catholic Faith. It should be remembered that all the early church fathers where in fact, Roman Catholic. It should also be remembered that the reason Christianity has been able to persecute those of other faiths and those of no faith, is because of their, and your, Holy Scriptures. The bible clearly says that those who do not believe shold be put to death.Deut 21.21.
Even Saint Augustine, one of the most often qouted early Christians, in one of his rarely mentioned qoutes said,
” Did not Eligah slaughter with his own hand the priests of Baal? Did not Hezakiah and Josiah, destroy by force idolatry within their domains and where they not expressly commended for their piety?” Epistle 1 Bonifacio.
It was mercyful, he said, to punish heretics even by death, if this could save them or others from the eternal suffering that awaited the non-believer. Heresy, or non-belief was described in Scripture as a kind of adultery; it was the worst species of murder, being the murder of souls, and on all these grounds might justly be punished.
The unfortunate bottom line in all this is that the real reason that persecution has happened in the past, and still happens even today, is simply because of Exodus 20.5.
” For I, the Lord your God, am a Jealous God”.
As for God sending ” Strong Delusions..”
How can we really know who is really deluded?
Is it those who claim to have “Faith” or those who claim that faith itself is a delusion?
There is no way of knowing.
It is fortunate for most of us that we live in a democracy and not a theology. In places that are governed by theocracy there is very little freedom of thought,and perhaps a little too much persecution. Saudi Arabia being the example.
We only need to look back at history to see how well off we are in these times.
Robert, why do you, along with so many others, highlight certain Scriptures to validate a pet argument? False religions do this all the time. That is why God tells us, “Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY Word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Have you ever TRIED to work it out? Have you ever asked for answers?
What you quote is a portion only of the whole picture. Who can know with certainty what is True?? Yahshua(means Yahweh is salvation – Jesus Christ) says, “For this reason came I into the world and for this purpose was I born. That I should testify to the Truth. All those on the side of Truth HEAR MY VOICE. Those who have received a love of the Truth will ALL tell you that they have met the risen Christ and have indeed heard His voice.
Chinese Whispers is such an amazing game and one that illustrates PERFECTLY the dilemma in handing down a message from one person to another. PEOPLE just cannot get it straight. They all have their own “leaning”, their own “interpretation” and so the end message doesn’t resemble the original message at all! This is undisputed. It also, sadly applies to the message that God is trying to get through to us.
HOWEVER. God DOES have a remedy for this. He says, that “unless a man is born again, he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven” – or God’s persepective.
In the natural realm if a person has poisoned blood, then sometimes the only solution is to give them a blood transfusion in order to flush out the poisoned blood and replace it with CLEAN and UNCONTAMINATED blood.
In the Spiritual realm it is exactly the same. Neither you nor I or anyone else can say that human beings are perfect, never doing wrong or even harm to our fellow humans to one degree or another. We ALL have a fallen/inherited nature. “None is good, no not one for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
If we remain in this “natural” state, we will die in our sins (“disease” in the blood transfusion analogy)
Therefore, God’s remedy for both seeing accurately, understanding the Truth as HE sees it and for CLEANSING our diseased spirit, is to offer a sort of “spiritual transfusion” if you like. The Word of God calls this, the “baptism in the Holy Spirit/Baptism of Fire”. When this occurs (see the Book of Acts Chapter 2), we are FILLED with His Holy Spirit, completely renewed, given the Spirit of Truth with which to discern Truth from error and now have the ability to enter the Kingdom of Heaven and receive eternal life.(“The Kingdom of Heaven does not come by men’s careful observance. No one will say ‘here it is or there it is’, for the Kingdom of Heaven is WITHIN you.” and “We are in direct contact with God through faith in Christ Jesus.”
At this point, we are “introduced” to Yahshua/Yahweh and become intimately acquainted with the True God. You may have read some other postings here about “another jesus” “different spirit” and “different gospel”. THESE are what the FALSE believers/church are promoting, not having had this experience to show them accurately what is what. And this is why what they teach does not line up with what the Scriptures say, for they are void of the Spirit of Truth and try to pass on the message (chinese whispers)from man to man. On the contrary, those who have received the true Holy Spirit have God’s Spirit IN them and “What He teaches is true not false”.
If you speak to me of someone that you personally know in your life, but I have never met them, why would I call you an stupid because you speak of this person and tell me about them, just because I have not had contact with them? What reason would I have to doubt that this person exists?
I bet if someone offered to introduce you to your favourite movie star or singer that you would JUMP at the idea. It seems odd to me therefore, that some people are so reluctant to come and meet the One Who created the universe, the earth and all that is in them! He is far more “famous” and worth knowing than finite “idols” of this world.
I guess the bottom line is this. “God is Truth and in Him there is no lie.” If then we would seriously and earnestly desire to know the Truth and are just not content with things the way they are, searching for a more suitable place for the human race to live, then we would come to the Truth. “Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you.”
Blindly rejecting what Yahshua offers us is evidence of a spirit that is not concerned with the Truth, but in reality is content with and maybe even enjoys the lie instead. In this case, what can one do? It is up to you whether you value Truth and Life enough to make it a priority… I pray that you do.
Anna, You are obviously feeling hurt and so I will pray for you. I believe that it is possible that you have encountered the Risen Lord, because I have seen Him. I say this not for vainglory but to bear witness that He Lives and is very much Truth. I believe that many have encountered the Risen Lord and many more will in the days to come. Yet, I do not believe that what you, Anna, have written comes from His counsel. The Lord has given us this parable and it applies to us as Christians, regardless of denomination or lack thereof, “We fight amongst ourselves while the enemy gathers outside the gates.” Why is it that we Christians do not love one another as Jesus instructed? Instead, we snap and hiss at one another like a brood of vipers? Jesus calls us to unity in Him. He is the only way to the Father.
I know many Roman Catholics, Orthodox Catholics, protestants, and Bible church Christians. I can’t say that I’ve ever met one that worships satan, to my knowledge. While many pay Him lip service, there are many who are very committed to Christ. It’s one thing to have proof behind allegations. It’s quite another to make generalized, unsubstantiated, and false statements as if they are truth.
Neither the scandals of a criminal minority of priests nor of protestant ministers who have molested children makes the majority evil. That would be like declaring every citizen of a town to be a thief if one among them is caught stealing. All Christians come from the same root, which the evil one attacks relentlessly. It is the enemy that causes division and no Christian should allow themselves to play a part in its scheme to divide the children of God.
Let’s not spread hatred for our brothers and sisters, regardless of denomination, for Scriptures state that “hate is murder”. Jesus Christ calls us to unity and this is not about religion but about the Truth. “All” who believe in Him will have eternal life and we are not the judge of each other. Instead, let’s keep the command that Jesus gave us and which sums up the law, “Love God with all of your being and above all else; and love your neighbor as yourself.”
Jim,
You have written beautifully to Anna. I hope she opens her mind and heart. God bless.
constantino
Perry, I wonder why Richard Reddy hasn’t elaborated his last post at your invitation. That’s the trouble with a lot of these folks who confess to experiencing miracles, in the cold light of another day they go off on another halucination forgetting the one they previously spoke about. If someone says they personally spoke to Jesus I would definitely request further details.
My friend,
Jesus said, that even though he is speaking to people, only his knows his voice (John 10:4)
So, even if I will use thousands of pages or years of speech, to explain how Jesus speaks to me, only those few who has the Holy Spirit will understand.
For me, personally, I didn’t see the body as a human being of Christ, some does, but I am glad that Jesus still speak to me, and Jesus proclaim me as blessed (John 20:29 “blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed”)
You want to know God, even his existence, to feel his presence, and to hear his saying, believe him first.
The bible says in Romans 10: 14: “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?”. So now, I preach to you, believe and experience a new life that you won’t have, ever, without Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior, Living God.
What a convincing argument Anna, I cannot disprove you. After all, I’m not good on arguing. Yes, I admit, there’s some wrong teachings in our religion, but I think it is not the religion that saves us, but it is our personal relation with God.
Uh, you have said that Roman Catholics are not christian and we even oppose them, I think I have to agree with you if you’ll be able to name at least one christian religion for me-one that satisfies everything in Christianity, one that is absolutely faultless, one which no one would dare to persecute
Respectfully yours,
Hubert
Dear Hubert,
I detect a note of sarcasm in your reply, but as long as we Come to an understanding of the truth and so be saved, escaping the trap of the devil in the END – when we walk through the valley of the shadow of death – then let’s keep the communication lines open.
You say that you are “not good at arguing”. I ask you, what could be more important than “rightly dividing the Word of Truth, being a workman who is not ashamed”? “Earnestly contending for the faith” and “Having nothing to do with the evil deeds of darkness, but rather exposing them?”
Do you consider these things arguing? Then you have bee clearly deceived.
The bottom line is, “I have come to testify to the Truth, all those on the side of Truth hear My voice.”
If we profess to be the Light of the world, then we better shape up and be sure we are leading people to the Kingdom of Heaven and not to the grave. How can our own fanciful notions add up to the Truth in Christ? Should we not ask HIM, what the Truth on matters is? It is written, “whoever goes beyond the teaching of Christ does not have God with him” Doesn’t these worry Catholics (and many others)even a LITTLE??
Both the Lord Jesus Christ AND the devil are fighting FURIOUSLY for our souls…shouldn’t WE also? It is written, “there was war in heaven”.
Hi Anna. Thanks for your reply.
I found it funny that you emphasize much on what I said ‘I’m not that good in arguing’ and leaving my question unanswered. You hadn’t answered me yet. Can you name a really Christian religion? Why not endorse it? Instead of finding fault and persecuting my own(and many other).
And in what means that you say we should worry because “Whoever goes beyond the teaching of Christ does not have God with him?”
I am Catholic. It is my religion since childhood. And I don’t remember a single time that our religion taught us something against the word of God. And if by any means I am being perceived by our priests and ministers, should you cite some reasons why their reference is the same as what the reference of the true Christians is-the BIBLE?
I’ll be arrogant if I say that my religion is perfect-that it is the only Christian religion. But I am more arrogant if I say that yours is more imperfect and even opposing the word of God.
We should not let the contradictions of our religions bound us from our relationship with our brothers and sisters. RESPECT.
You almost sound like the Tempter who tempted Eve, and the one who convinced one third of the angels to rebel against God.
My advice to you is not to jump blindly into the life raft.
Stick to the mother-ship. It has more resources (even if they are stolen as you claim). It is safer there though it may not be a perfect ship. Stay back and repair the damaged mother-ship, instead of splitting the people on-board into in-numerous life boats. Unlike in the seas, there is only one Way (mother ship). Don’t expect another mother ship to come and rescue you from your life-raft.
Creating a rift between people, and splitting them is what Satan wants: to split, divide, disintegrate, explode, break into pieces something wholesome and whole. Satan (Devil) is the Father of division.
While the Holy spirit tries to unite people by blessing them with Chastity, Temperance, Charity, Diligence, Patience, Kindness,and Humility,the evil spirit tries to split the people into warring factions by instilling in them
Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath and Envy
The demons who are in charge of or associated with these WMDs (weapons of mass destruction) are
Lucifer: Pride
Mammon: Greed
Asmodeus: Lust
Leviathan: Envy
Beelzebub: Gluttony
Satan/Amon: Wrath
Belphegor: Sloth
@Tony Francis,
“The zeal of the LORD (YAHWEH)consumes me, I am weary at holding it in!”
FIRST, READ your Bible, follow the Way that Jesus Christ commanded us to and THEN come and tell me about your “Mother Ship”.
Is there NONE who is valiant for thhe Truth?
One day, if you continue in the way you are going, you will be trying to convince the Lord Jesus Himself that He is wrong and that your fanciful myths hatched in the depths of Hades are far superior.
Sweet little jesus, meek and mild?? “Beg that you be counted worthy to escape all that is about to happen and to be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
I challenge you to do a Bible search on the name, “queen of heaven” and just see for yourself, what Yahweh REALLY thinks of her AND those who follow her detestable practices.
And if you think that Jesus wouldn’t hurt a fly, I suggest you have a good look at Acts 5 speaking of Ananias and Saphira and further into Revelation 2:20.
Henceforth, I shall not answer a fool according to his folly.
I just did a bible search on “Bright and Morning Star” and discovered that
A name for Devil in the Scripture is Lucifer (Luci-fer, Venus as light-bringer); a fallen angel{NIV}, also called “Day Star,Bright and Morning Star.
In Revelation 22:16 (KJV), Jesus says: “…I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
In your religion, who is the light bringer in your Bible? Is it Lucifer or Jesus ?
Outside Christianity, it also means Venus the planet, and and Venus, a Roman God.
I know that you will not be able to answer this question because in all versions of Bible you will find many contradictions like this. (For your comfort, I shall believe that you are not answering because of my folly).
The Bible has all truths, but will be visible only to the true seeker.
Another example I can give you to practice is
Genesis 6:1-4
When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years.
In your sect of church, is “son of God” Jesus or a fallen angel?
Reference Lucifer.
I consider the words, “Lucifer, Bearer of Light,” to mean “Bearer of Knowledge”. Knowing, meaning having knowledge.Darkness, meaning no knowledge. In the dark.
It is really just a personification of mans desire for knowledge.Personified in the angel Lucifer.
There is a reference to Lucifer in the OT.
“Take up this proverb against the king of babylon and say…How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!” Isaiah 14:4-12.
This verse is actually a reference to the king of Babylon who had said that he would ascend to heaven and make himself equal to God. Maybe he did have some big ideas about himself, but at least we know that Isaiah is not talking about a supernatural being.
Just another man.
Oh Tony, I was so praying that you would gather some sense out of what I have been showing you, but there is none so blind as he who will not see.
You are arguing with a full-bottle on the Roman Catholic religion and also one sho is called to Testify to the Truth as was my Master Yahshua (Lord Jesus Christ). I am fully aware of the Morning Star which you highlight and your MARY (Queen of Heaven) IS this according to catholic literature. Now go and ask yourself, is “Mary” Jesus or the Devil?
Did you actually read what your Church publishes on the Coronation of the Pope?
Pope = father and YOUR Bible tells YOU “Call NO MAN father, for you have only one Father in Heaven.”
Now go and do some Bible research on the Queen of Heaven”.
I shall no longer answer your nonsense because you are not fighting with me, but with the God of Israel and His Word and this is TRUE folly.
Tony – It’s great that you have found sanctuary in “the mother ship” however your argument deserves a few comments.
1-Didn’t the pilgrims leave the “mother ship” and establish a new era of religious freedom here in America?
2-if a “mother ship” is full of corruption isn’t it more difficult to have a valid connection to The Truth? In Revelations, Jesus criticizes several “mother ships” for being corrupt and seduced by their rich resources.
3- Jesus came to sow division (Luke 12:49) so I wouldn’t expect simple unity to be the ultimate answer…and I’m sure you’re not calling Jesus an “evil spirit” because he wanted to divide things that appear wholesome, such as families (Luke 12:53)
Jesus said ”
“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.
Jesus criticised what the Pharisees did, but instead of abandoning Israel to start or join a new religion, he adopted Gentiles also into the Israel fold as adopted children.
So Jesus never left his mother-ship because it was full of corrupt Pharisees, and politicians, but tried to guide them into the correct path.
These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[b]drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; 10take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep. Matthew 10:5-10
“I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24)
Jesus did not try to divide families. But to make large families, cells have to divide and multiply, children have to separate from their mother’s bodies.
Sometimes, cancer cells have to be killed or or removed from the body to preserve the body.
When a home becomes dirty, we should only clean it by separating / removing the dirt. It will not be a good practice to leave one’s home when it becomes dirty.
Going to Americas in search of better opportunities need not be at the expense of family unity.
Seeds of trees are sent far away from the parent tree so that they could germinate there and grow fully into adult trees instead of growing stunted under the shade of the parent tree. But they could still belong to the same family.
A new Mc Donald restaurant run efficiently at a decent distance from another Mc Donald will only strengthen the Mc Donald family and make it more popular.
Tony, The Lord Jesus tells us that “Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.”
What this means is that we MUST read and believe EVERYTHING (“every word”) that Yahweh says, not just a few select Scriptures that support our favorite doctrine.
We need to see the WHOLE picture.
Firstly, where in my comments do I display any of those “demons” on your list? ie:
Lucifer: Pride
Mammon: Greed
Asmodeus: Lust
Leviathan: Envy
Beelzebub: Gluttony
Satan/Amon: Wrath
Belphegor: Sloth
Secondly, why do you major on the “MOTHER ship” when we are strongly commanded in Revelation to “Come out of her My people…lest you share in her sins, lest you partake of her plagues”? THIS referring to Babylon the Great – MOTHER of harlots. We are informed that her sins are piled up to Heaven and that she is a home for every detestable bird and haunt for every unclean spirit”
We don’t have to look very far into history to see that the Roman Church fulfills all of this, but more importantly, God SAYS SO!
Thirdly,
It is written, “Come out and be separate, says the Lord and touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you to Myself. I shall be Father to you and you shall be sons and daughters to me.”
Lastly, (and most regretfully)it is written in 2Cor11:2-4
that there is “another jesus, a different gospel and a different spirit.” My Testimony witnessing also that this is absolutely true.
Therefore, we ALL need to be certain, that the Jesus we are following “COMES IN HIS FATHER’S NAME” and NOT in his own name for He Himself tells us clearly, “Whoever believes in Me DOES NOT believe in Me, but in Him (not her)Who sent Me.”
By the way, it is official practice at the Coronation of the Pope, that an announcement is made as follows:
“Thou art the father of princes and kings, the Ruler of the world…” (from “The Election of a Pope by Rev Charles Burns, DHE London Catholic Truth Society” page 20)
Regarding THIS, Jesus tells us to “call NO MAN Father, for you have only one Father in Heaven”
But MORE ASTOUNDING IS what Jesus Himself has to say about this, “PRINCE OF THE WORLD”!! He says, “The Prince of this world is coming AND HE HAS NOTHING IN ME.” (John 14:30)
AND “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.” (John 12:31)
Thanks for your “advice” Tony, but “First remove the log from your own eye, then you will be able to see clearly in order to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
When you correct God’s people, you really need to use His Word (The Sword of the Spirit) which will stand in Heaven, and not your own opinion, which will be crushed to dust when Jesus returns.
I really DO pray that you escape from the trap of the devil who has taken you captive to do his will.
Love and tears,
Anna
Tony, The Lord Jesus tells us that “Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.”
What this means is that we MUST read and believe EVERYTHING (”every word”) that Yahweh says, not just a few select Scriptures that support our favorite doctrine.
We need to see the WHOLE picture.
I agree with you totally. But who decides which is the WORD of GOD?
The Bible was given to Christianity by the Catholic Church. Break away “Christians” have torn away pages from that Bible and accept only “select scriptures” because they do not want to see the whole picture, and want to read only that which support their favourite doctrine
Firstly, where in my comments do I display any of those “demons” on your list? ie:
Lucifer: Pride
Mammon: Greed
Asmodeus: Lust
Leviathan: Envy
Beelzebub: Gluttony
Satan/Amon: Wrath
Belphegor: Sloth
One way and probably the only reliable way of deciding whether a teaching, or scripture or statement or activities of a group of people is good or not is by observing their fruits.
Practically every Breakaway Christian groups have done so under the influence of
Lust: Anglican Church was formed because some English King wanted to divorce his wife and marry her chambermaid who was younger and more beautiful.
Greed : To put their hands into Charity money and help themselves to material luxuries got with the ill-gotten wealth.
Envy: Because somebody else became a Pope or was promoted to a Bishop instead of himself.
You could read about who started these divisions of the Church yourself, and decide which demon had influenced them and encouraged them to break away from the Church instituted by Jesus.
Secondly, why do you major on the “MOTHER ship” when we are strongly commanded in Revelation to “Come out of her My people…lest you share in her sins, lest you partake of her plagues”? THIS referring to Babylon the Great – MOTHER of harlots. We are informed that her sins are piled up to Heaven and that she is a home for every detestable bird and haunt for every unclean spirit”
We don’t have to look very far into history to see that the Roman Church fulfills all of this, but more importantly, God SAYS SO!
Here also, what we understand from Scripture depends on which Evil Spirit we are under when we read it.
Please remember that the Evil Spirit knows “Scripture” so well (probably better than us); that he was trying to tempt even Jesus (in the desert) by quoting relevant Scripture passages.
We have to pray to the Holy Spirit to give us discernment when we read Holy Scripture if we have to understand exactly what God wants to convey to us; because the evil spirit can twist the meanings of God’s words (using his demons of envy, anger, lust, etc.)and misguide us, like he did to EVE in the Garden of Eden.
As an example, the following scripture can be interpreted in different ways depending on which Spirit’s influence he / she is under
<> from King James Bible.
“Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well.”
A person who is obsessed with urine can interpret this passage as God’s instruction to drink his own urine and from the toilet bowl.
So you have to pray, and meditate deeply to find out which demon is influencing you to become so angry with Catholic religion, that you want to divide it and destroy it.
Thirdly,
It is written, “Come out and be separate, says the Lord and touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you to Myself. I shall be Father to you and you shall be sons and daughters to me.”
Under which Spirit’s influence were you, when you decided that the “unclean thing” was the Catholic Church and not “Church of Latter Day Saints”?
Lastly, (and most regretfully)it is written in 2Cor11:2-4
that there is “another jesus, a different gospel and a different spirit.” My Testimony witnessing also that this is absolutely true.
Therefore, we ALL need to be certain, that the Jesus we are following “COMES IN HIS FATHER’S NAME” and NOT in his own name for He Himself tells us clearly, “Whoever believes in Me DOES NOT believe in Me, but in Him (not her)Who sent Me.”
By the way, it is official practice at the Coronation of the Pope, that an announcement is made as follows:
“Thou art the father of princes and kings, the Ruler of the world…” (from “The Election of a Pope by Rev Charles Burns, DHE London Catholic Truth Society” page 20)
Who is Rev Charles Burns; and which spirit’s influence is he under?
Regarding THIS, Jesus tells us to “call NO MAN Father, for you have only one Father in Heaven”
What shall I then call my father (who happens to be a man) ?
What do you call your father? Do you call him “mother” or “uncle”; or is he not a man??
But MORE ASTOUNDING IS what Jesus Himself has to say about this, “PRINCE OF THE WORLD”!! He says, “The Prince of this world is coming AND HE HAS NOTHING IN ME.” (John 14:30)
Who do you think is this “PRINCE OF THE WORLD” ?
Did Rev Charles Burns tell you that he is the POPE’s son?
AND “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.” (John 12:31)
I think you should pray to the Holy spirit for discernment and wisdom, and depend on them to understand GOD’s WORD, instead of listening to Rev Charles Burns.
Thanks for your “advice” Tony, but “First remove the log from your own eye, then you will be able to see clearly in order to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
I think you should also practice what you preach.
When you correct God’s people, you really need to use His Word (The Sword of the Spirit) which will stand in Heaven, and not your own opinion, which will be crushed to dust when Jesus returns.
I agree with you totally here.
I really DO pray that you escape from the trap of the devil who has taken you captive to do his will.
Thank you for your concern. I know that you are a good person and wish for my betterment. But then, did not EVE have good intentions for Adam when she fed him the apple?
Love and tears,
Hi Anna, I was brought up as a Roman Catholic from birth and attended a Catholic school for nearly 12 years. We received 98 percent of our religious education from the nuns, a little more than one percent from lay teachers and less than one percent from the priest. I want to assure you as much as the nuns would teach catholicism, they would come forth and say things like, ” you are a christian first and a catholic second.” You can talk to God without the priest and even confess your sins if you’re getting ready to pass on without the presence of priest. It was brought out at that Jesus Christ was the “lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world,” that phrase came up at every mass. Yes, they did teach that Jesus is the risen saviour. It was only emphasized in a different way and yes, all that pagan stuff that you mention is there too, but I remembered it as something peripheral to the main teachings of the C.C. I’ve come to the conclusion that all this bickering about religion is extremely divisive and that is why I adhere to the two great commandments that Christ spoke of. Note what he says after mentioning the two great commandments, all else is commentary. I now emphasize the two great commandments and as for the commentary, lets have fun with it without it tearing us apart.
In my mid twenties I became and Evangelical Christian (about 1973 to 1975). Not long after that I gave up my career of entering science and engineering to become a minister of the gospel and a teacher of the bible. That is what I exchanged for graduate school. I went from happiness to unhappiness and a great part of that was due to all this strife and bickering about who is right. Secondly, I was undergoing a divorce at the time and that was a big career buster for ministers for those times. My expertise is in asking questions. So I went out on a mission to question the scriptures, analyze it, dissect it, philosophize it, and run endless scenarios on it. Went into the original languages, the culture of those times and what the historians wrote of the event. I have found endless alleged contradictions. This went on for years. Finally, I said, enough is enough and I gave up being a christian to becoming a philosopher. And I’m now certified as a “New Thought and Science of Mind” minister. This is considered by many apologist to be aberated christianity at least and a cult at most. I’ve known of cases by where P.K.’s (preacher kids) who have followed in their father’s footsteps and became evangelical fundamentalist preachers who served in the missionary field, who are now hardcore atheist. They lost their faith, why? Because they saw the end result of what their work was bringing, divisiveness, strife, contentions, bickering, backstabbing, among a whole host of other unripened and spoil fruit. They woke up out of bed one morning and they transformed.
For me, the best way to get familiar with God is to study the laws of his creation, its mechanisms of how it works, and what it yields. The second is to study the holy scriptures with the assistance of the Holy Spirit and an open mind and what comes to me as new knowledge is commentary, finally, when we practice the two great commandments:
1. Love God with all your heart, soul, and being.
2. The second is likened to the first, love your fellow man as yourself.
The rest is all commentary. Lets have fun debating because it is fun. That is of the mind, but lets not allow our egos to ensnare us into this wallowing mess.
We shouldn’t worry or concern ourselves how we got here with all this religious mess, however it is find to study it for the sake of scholarship. It not my problem, nor should it be any one else’s. The best we all can do now is to move forward in love, compassion and sensitivity.
Mario
Well now that was exciting.Nice to know you’re there.
I can definetaly go along with the second of those commandments. And I do’nt mind thinking about God now and then. I do like the idea of having fun debating about the existence of God. It is fun, but the sad thing is, is that some religeous people get very offended and upset.
They do’nt see the fun in it.
I don’t mean to be offensive. I used to be a catholic too.
Robert,
You’re a good sport. Sorry, I’m having fun too joining this forum. I am just reacting to issues raised against catholicism. Hope I don’t offend. There’s always the tendency to be ascerbic when one reads a sour articles. But I’ll watch my language. Thanks for the reminder.
constantino
Dear Mario,
Thank you for taking time to reply to this important issue.
I have great compassion on your Life’s Path so far, but as we only have one lifetime to “connect the dots”, there is still time, while we have breath in our bodies, to come to an understanding of the Truth and so be saved.
Yes, there is much to learn from science etc, but let’s be honest, it is well known that scientists are very IMPERFECT and often have to eat humble pie in changing their opinions on research, so their “truth” is always changing. This kind of system is very dangerous to actually follow, but nonetheless interesting – certainly holding ELEMENTS of Truth, but it not the ENTIRE Truth. On the contrary, Jesus Christ IS the (undiluted)Truth and this is probably why the majority of people detest His very presence. “This is the condemnation of the world, that Light has come into the world but men rather the darkness than the Light, because the Light shows up that their deeds are evil.” Makes perfect sense to me.
Why do you attribute all this “religious mess” to MAN, or even God?
Have you not considered the enemy of our souls, who works tirelessly to bring down mankind and turn the Truth into a lie? And the fact that you may even be serving his purpose in PROMOTING this situation?
Why wouldn’t you want to listen to the counsel of the One who ROSE FROM THE DEAD and Who holds the keys of death and Hades? Do you imagine that you (or anyone else for that matter) knows MORE than He and is altogether wiser? “If any man chooses to do God’s will, He will know whether My teaching comes from Myself or from the One Who sent Me.” Have you TRIED? Or have you gone on in the counsel of men?
The Lord Jesus Christ tells us plainly what we are battling against for He says that His whole purpose for coming to planet earth is to “Testify to the Truth. All those on the side of Truth hear My Voice.”
Therefore, the UNDERLYING issue is Truth against lies and it is astounding how many people are not the slightest bit interested in the TRUTH, but would rather forfeit their entire eternal life and even meaningful existence on earth in order to take the EASY way out and drift along in the web of lies which covers the whole earth. This makes man no better/better off that a mere jelly fish – no spine, no substance, just idly drifting along wherever the tide takes him.
This is why the Lord tells us that we MUST be born again – born of the Spirit and not only of the flesh. Only then, are we able to discern ANY degree of Truth and deception.
In my experience, much of man’s ideas that lead to countless books being written, contain certain ELEMENTS of Truth, but somewhat diluted. The Word of God however, IS the UNDILUTED Truth ie: PURE. Where are you going to get off?
Even science will reveal that if we have a glass of pure water and place a drop of arsenic into it, the pure water will not make the arsenic pure, but the arsenic will surely make the pure water poison!
Please do not give up your search for the Truth, for he who seeks WILL find.
Love and Peace in Christ (Not “World-Peace”)
Anna
Dear Mario,
Another thought came to mind regarding your comment: “I’ve known of cases by where P.K.’s (preacher kids) who have followed in their father’s footsteps and became evangelical fundamentalist preachers who served in the missionary field, who are now hardcore atheist.”
Well, if their “father” had been Yahweh our Heavenly Father and not an earthly father, there may have been more hope for them.
Even the Jesus that you turned your back on tells us in His Word that this falling away will happen and even WHY.
He says, “Because of the degree of wickedness the love of most will grow cold. Many will turn away from the faith and betray and hate each other.”
Why be one of them?
To love Jesus is to love the Truth and to love the Truth is to love Jesus.
How can one with so much “knowledge” of the Word of God turn away and become a“New Thought and Science of Mind” minister?
Nothing wrong with the “New Thought” bit as we ALL need to re-evaluate what we have been taught in “church” (ie: Babylon)and seek the TRUTH instead.
From all your research, you must have INVALUABLE knowledge, certainly have HEARD the Truth, the only conclusion then, is that you were never told about or ever experienced being born again of the Spirit (I am not talking about today’s wacky “Pentecostal” fiasco)
Were you never told about the false Jesus, different spirit and different gospel in 2Corinthians 11:2-4)?
Oh Marion, don’t you see that you are the Prodigal Son and it is not too late to return to your Heavenly Father?
Greetings Anna
You mentioned you have met the risen Christ, I would love to exchange experiences but do not think it would be an issue open to public disscussion? From your August 1st posting I would say we both have a quest to serve God in truth. I am not in fellowship with any organised religion religion are you?
Dearest June,
You are more than welcome to communicate via my email address at any time.
My Love, as you, it seems clear to me that if we claim to worship the Lord (Yahweh)through His one and only begotten Son, then this Scripture surely applies: “Those who worship Him shall worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.”
In answer to your question whether I am in fellowship with any organised religion, the answer is a painful “no”.
The equation is quite simple.
“God is Love”. There is no love in the 13 different denominations that I have attended therefore, there is no God there. The search for the scattered Flock continues as I follow The Way. Jesus says, “I Am the Way”, the apostle Paul lived and died for The Way and so it seems good to me also to follow in their footsteps. Why all the denominations?
1Cor1:10-13 identifies this problem beginning right back then:
“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?”
Praying for your endurance to the end.
Love and Peace (Not “World-Peace”)
Anna
I’m actually one of those that doesn’t believe in miracles. Yes, shit happens that you wouldn’t expect things that you would just not expect at all, but I don’t believe that there is a supernatural force behind that. I believe that everything is a simple coincidence (except of course for the things that we purposely do ourselves).
Jesse – You haven’t seen enough miracles. They will change your perception of reality.
I can empathize with your POV, and in a way I agree with it. I see miracles as a consequence of grace and I see grace manifesting much like rain. You can’t always predict where the drop will fall, but there are roadmaps to that will increase your chance of getting wet.
I believe Jesus was a “map maker”. Good luck.
great testimonies of god’s faithfulness. iv’e seen miracles in my own life and so i am convinced that they are for real. i believe that in the next coming years we will see an incredible increase in miracles. on the streets people will be healed and set free,we will see the goodness of the lord in the land of the living in a mighty way. it’s going to be such a great time to be alive on this earth.
What does ‘I AM’ mean and where does it come from? Has any other religeon at any time in history ever used this expression before?
Greetings Robert
You ask what “I AM” means and where this comes from. When Moses was instructed to go back to Egypt and lead the Israelites out to the promised land Moses asked God who he would say had sent him. This did not mean the Israelites didn’t know what God’s Name was. Moses foresaw that it would prove difficult for his message of deliverance to be believed. That is why God said to Moses “say to the people
‘Eh-Yeh’ ‘Asher’ ‘Eh-Yeh’ has sent me. Some translaters render the meaning to be “I Am That I Am has sent me” However The New World Translation renders the translation in Exodus 3:14 At this God said to Moses: “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” And he added “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah (or Yod-He-Vau-He)the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob has sent me to YOU. This is my name to time indefinite. And this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.
When God delivers mankind from Satans grip that will be the ALMIGHTY NAME of our deliverer. My understanding is this… Our sins are forgiven through the Ransom Sacrificial Blood of Christ our Saviour. But it will be OUR ALMIGHTY GOD who will deliver us by means of OUR enthroned King and Saviour Jesus Christ OUR Lord.
When Moses was on that mountain and all the congregation of Isreal was listening, did the people of Isreal actually hear and understand Gods voice, or was it only Moses who heard the voice and then told the people?
Or, did the assembled Isrealites hear the voice coming down the mountain but not understand it, and Moses explained what was said?
Anna.
You speak of religeous persecution at the same time as saying that you are becoming more ‘exasperated’ with people who have a different way of interpreting scripture.
According to the Webster Universal Dictionary,definition of the meaning of the word ‘exasperate’ is,
1. ‘To rouse the anger of, excite the wrath of, to provoke, irritate, infuriate’.
It seems to me that exasperation is one of the steps toward religeous persecution.
Catholics are of course Christians. Just a different branch of Christianity. In fact the actual root of Christianity.
We can see, by looking at the history of Christianity, various periods where this ‘exasperation’, has been allowed to
become ‘persecution’.
As for God sending ‘delusions’ to some people and ‘truth’ to others. That does not seem very fair to me.
What kind of God would behave in such a way?
To believe that the Creator behaves in this way is silly.
Almost as silly as believing that the Creator would choose one nation as his favourite before all other nations.
All men are equal in the sight of God. And have always been so.
Comments:
Yes, miracles still do happen even today. We hear of many physical, spiritual, moral miracles. When people know of a healer they flock to that healer. I know of an elderly woman who has the gift of healing which she said was given to her by the Lord and every year on the day she got the gift, she celebrates it with going to the Eucharistic celebration in her place, then invites people for healing. Many people go to her (we were there for one of these healings) and they serve everybody who comes with supper. People believe in her and are happy with the healing that happens even if it is not instant. She has helped many people with this gift and many want to show their gratitude in many ways.
Rosie
Robert, “God is Spirit” and “Spiritual things are foolishness to the natural man because they are spiritually discerned.”
As one who has met the risen Christ (not the Catholic one) I could simply laugh at you and move on, since my knowledge is certain and your mocking just makes you look foolish.
“I Am” means the Self-Existent One, the Eternal. HE says, that Jesus Christ is the Way and the Truth and the Life and that no one comes to the Father (I Am) except through Jesus Christ. That is the reason you do not come into His presence and you do not know Him, because whoever denies the Son, denies the Father. I shall no longer argue with you, because if you do not count yourself worthy of eternal life what can I do? None of us is going to win a game of chess against both the Almighty and the devil.
It is interesting that I just prior to reading your message on this, I had sent an email to a friend on this topic, so in the hope that God grants you repentance I shall copy it here for you.
“…Having said that, my investigations DID reveal to me that the TRUE Faith of the followers of Jesus IS a CONTINUATION of the Old Testament (albeit a New Covenant) and that our ROOTS are Hebrew. But this is NOT to be confused with the “tripe” they are dishing up to us these days. The Hebrew language is for me particularly beautiful and since we are told that Jehovah spoke to Moses in Hebrew and Jesus spoke to Saul at his conversion to Paul “in the Hebrew tongue”, then Hebrew(ism) is not to be discounted altogether. One of the most astounding revelations that Jesus gave me was two main differences between the Old and New Testaments in the working out of our Salvation.
1. In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit was only given to select prophets/kings etc and the “average” Israelite, because he didn’t have the Spirit in HIM , needed to GO to a Prophet to inquire about the counsel of God.
However, since Acts 2 when the prophecy in Joel was fulfilled, ALL Believers were given the same Holy Spirit as the Prophets of old and so that is why, if we are truly born again, we do NOT have to go to ANY man/prophet/teacher/pastor/guru to seek God’s counsel. “If the Spirit lives in you, you do not need a man to teach you for the Spirit will be your Teacher and what He teaches is True not false.”
2. All the wars/traumas/killings etc in the OLD Testament are PHYSICAL/OUTWARD manifestations of “great battle” because “Israel” did NOT have the Holy Spirit IN them and everything was OUTWARD and visible.
Now, since the Holy Spirit is given to ALL genuine believers at conversion, these SAME battles STILL do occur, but now they appear in the INNER man, being spiritual and INVISIBLE.”
To deny the spiritual warfare that touches us all to one degree is simply folly and something anyone can see. To receive the cure is the hard part.
Why is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His atoning Blood sacrifice, so difficult for men to receive??
I shall leave you with the hope that you do come to a knowledge of the Truth and so be saved before the dumning down process contrived by the mass media renders you completely unable to make any choices for yourself. This too, is a sad fact of the world in which we live. The destruction of the human mind has been planned for a long long time now so “If today you hear His voice, do not harden your heart. For this is the day of your Salvation.”
Mark my words, the time is at hand when men will have no mind left with which to make any decisions for themselves, even less to make a decision for Christ. I DON’T want to be around in those days, it’s bad enough already.
But on the other hand, if you have the solution, then please step up to the podium.
In the meantime, I urge you to watch a DVD called, “Glimpse of Eternity” which is a real life account of a young man called, Ian McCormack and where he went after leaving his body and heading for eternity.
TO: My friend Anna;
You are absolutely correct in your most eloquent statement to Robert. You certainly left little, if anything out in your efforts to explain your views.
I would like to back up your message with the following tidbit of information our Lord Jesus let me in on through personal experience.
Being shown love and forgiveness is being Liberated by His Loving Son, Jesus the Christ.
Finding God accomplishes the goal of living life and makes one complete.
The Church that our Lord Jesus the Christ built, has only to do with our Lord Jesus the Christ’s blessings as He enters into the person who has experienced the “Fear of the Lord”, OTHER WISE CALLED “SPIRITUAL Baptism“, which is paramount to receiving Him into our “HEARTS” as a “LIVING STONE” in the spiritual “Church” that our Lord said He would build, beginning with Simon Peter, aka “Cephus” or “Rock”, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. All earthly religions are corrupted by being involved in some form of “Simony” to one degree or another, and so are not worthy of teaching anyone, because they themselves don’t even know.
EVERYTHING, concerning our Lord Jesus the Christ is done in “SECRET” in the hearts within us, “Emmanuel”, (see Mat. 6:5-6 ) so that makes all earthly religions false and ALL are guilty of Simony, to one degree or another, and our Lord Jesus the Christ said so through Paul when he stated in; Galatians 2:4 “And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, ( Simon Magus)… that they might bring us into bondage:” … thus making all earthly man made institutions called churches, temples, mosques, chapels, synagogues, tents or caves, vile and filled with false teachers. Matthews 23:13 “But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.”
The “Secret” to praying and having it heard or not.
{ Message} Matthew 6:5-6 ¶ And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Your rewards for doing so are the following:
{ Message} Psalm 91; 1-16 ¶ He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in Him will I trust. Surely He shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. He shall cover thee with His feathers, and under His Wings shalt thou trust: His Truth shall be thy shield and buckler. Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my Refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. For He shall give His angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet. Because he hath set his love upon Me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known My Name.
He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him My salvation.
Once one has learned this, heads up!:
{ Directive} 1 Corinthians 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours, become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Therefore; Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ Jesus; and all ye are brethren.
All Glory comes from God, and unto Him all Glory returns.
God bless you in every “Good” thing you endeavor my friend.
Thank You Lord Jesus!
Anna,
I don’t think ANYONE has the complete solution, but there is one. I believe that we have love each other enough to put it all together, that’s one of our lessons. It’s like the old Jainist story about the five blind men and the elephant. It’s not about creating a single religion for all people, it’s about realizing that we all have different views of the same truth.
If the carrot (rather than the stick) is obvious, then the people will follow. People like carrots. Folks are tired of the stick.
So in contrast to your “gloomy” projection, I’ll offer that we already have the technology to free the human mind, it’s just a matter of applying the technology intelligently. It’s the difference between knowledge and wisdom. As it says in the OT, “for lack of wisdom, my people perish”.
bwt, I think it’s commendable that you don’t ridicule a man/woman for his faith paradigm. After all, we’re all judged by our own beliefs, not someone else’s.
Anna. You seem to think I mock you because I do not believe in the same things as you do. I do not mock. I do seek to find truth. Finding truth means examining scripture. If it is possible to question scripture then it should be questioned.
It must never be blindly clung to. In the search for truth nothing can be held sacred, beyond question. Faith only takes you so far.Faith does not like questions.
I do not consider myself a religeous man but I am a spiritual man. I seek to know God, the Creator. I consider myself to be at least as spirital as any believer. Of any faith. It is possible to be spiritual without believing in Jesus. Spirtuality is within. As you say one does not need a teacher or a guru. Or even the bible.
As for the wars of the ancient Jews. Exodus 20.5. The Jealous God. The main cause of religeous persecution even to this day.
I shall continue to search for truth.
God is Love.
Robert – I have to disagree with you one a couple of points:
(1)To condemn a concept of “blind faith” is a pretty slippery slope. It’s promoting the notion that faith has to be based on proof. Isn’t it then called “knowledge”? Real faith is much harder and requires a “leap” into a place where there is no proof.
(2)Isn’t proclaiming that “one does not need a guru” (or anything else) being a teacher (guru).
(3)Although I agree that spiritual competition is a cancer to humanity, I think in recent times political manipulation of religion is more the culprit.
The real cancer in society is ‘faith’.There are just so many of them. They cannot all be right. How can we really know which one has the truth? How can a God of truth punish for non-belief in all of this religeous confusion. At the last count there was about 800 different branches of Chistiaity in the USA alone.
Then there are all of the other, non-Christian faiths, Islamic ,Buddist,Hindoo, Zoroastrian, and, not forgetting,Judaism. There are some others, too many to mention. But the thing is, generally, most, if not all of these faiths have the same mental disposition as each other, but different beliefs about divinty. They all believe in being charitable to the poor, do not rob, rape or pillage etc. They all also worship the same God too. They just have different ‘faiths’.
Or perhaps just different ways of worshipping. Is God really going to select just one of these faiths and praise them and condemn all of the others?
If God is a God of truth then faith does not matter to Him. Because faith is not actually based on anything that is verifiable. Therefore it cannot be considered as truth. Faith is just another idea about the divine.
Dear Robert Taylor, There is only one ‘faith’ that you have to know about and believe. His name is Jesus Christ and there is nothing you can do to earn his love or grace. It is yours. Just take it and tell someone else about Him! Easy! God bless you, Bill
“Faith”is the “Life”of a society, not its cancer.
Without faith, there would be no marriages, no families, no investments, no businesses, no banks, no partnerships- nothing.Even for us to buy and drink a packet of milk from a grocery, we have to have faith in the farmer, the FDA, the packaging equipment manufacturer, the transporter,and a long list of other people.
You can have 800 different types and flavours of Apple, but as long as it is food and not poison, you may eat of any apple.
Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us
<> “Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
39“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
Dear Robert
Religion is in so much disunity and some religions have an evil control over the minds of followers who do not realise they are obeying the commands of men and not listening to the word of God Almighty.
The one true religion is with God in Heaven and in scripture. However scripture must be discerned according to Divine interpretation and not according to imperfect dictatorial men. God knows who he approves of and it is up to us to discern what is true and what is false.
If we desire to serve God in truth he will guide us. I believe it is good to read what religions put forward but make sure of the interpretation. Religions can be prone to twist scripture to fit their own concept rather than allow scripture to speak for itself. As an example I associated with people in a religion who pointed to the Pontiff as deserving no honor because all honor belongs to God. And yes I can agree with that. But this religion appoints Elders to dictate to women and children who must unquestionably obey or be put out of the organisation. One elder in particular and others told me I would be disfellowshipped and provided many inappropriate scriptures when demanding I attend all meetings and spank my new born children if they cry or make baby sounds during services.
I was commanded not to reason with my children when young just beat them. When I put forward scripture relaing to teaching and reasoning with children I was accused of apostacy and guilty of blasphemy against God. I was overpowered by tyranny and left.
The peculiar aspect of this to me was that the literature depicted my reasoning to an extent but there was always a twist the other way to allow and encourage misinterpretation.
My children and I suffered a lot from the persecution of many; some who are misguided but mean well; and others who are cruel and ignorant.
That said I did benefit from literature and an insight into learning scripture but I now rely soley on scripture and God’s power to instruct me.
Robert, you seem to be both condemning and praising faith(s) at the same time. First calling it a cancer and then saying how the all promote great things like being charitable, respectful and compassionate. Doesn’t sound like a cancer to me.
I also have to disagree with your statement that “they all worship the same God”. While this may be true in theory, don’t try to tell a Buddhist or Hindu that they believe in a Judeao/Christian G@d. Buddhists do not believe in a Creator G@d and thus call themselves Non-Theists. A Jnana Hindu will believe in a God attainable only by merging with the Great Essence or Infinite Self (No Jesus required vs John 14:6)and yet a Bhakti Hindu will believe in a God only knowable by serving and devotion, much like Christianity except they have millions of gods to pick from, not just one (Jesus). Further, not too long ago several Rabbis came out publicly to reiterate the vital and essential differences that keep Jews and Christians spiritually separate. To be blunt, saying “they all worship the same God” is insulting to the faithful.
I always find it interesting when folks start to explain how G@d thinks or feels about other faiths or how Hashem will judge them. It seems a pointless and vain endeavor. Romans 14:4 says this best and talks about why we should not judge another’s faith because ultimately we are all judged by our own conscience. We’re all judged by our own beliefs, not someone else’s.
But to answer what I think is your truly important question: “How can we really know which one has the truth?” you have to consider that maybe it’s not our job to find the one great true religion or faith paradigm. Debating or deciding about this issue has been the cause of much human suffering (and still is today). Nonetheless, I do believe that when one finds that truth for him/her self, there will be no debate. It will be obvious. It may be a lonely journey or it may be discovering a wonderful community. Either is valid because it is valid to the beholder.
As my Interfaith friends say: “It’s not about creating a single religion (or faith paradigm), it’s about realizing that we all have different perspectives of the same truth”.
I also have to disagree with your statement that “they all worship the same God”. While this may be true in theory, don’t try to tell a Buddhist or Hindu that they believe in a Judeao/Christian G@d. Buddhists do not believe in a Creator G@d and thus call themselves Non-Theists. A Jnana Hindu will believe in a God attainable only by merging with the Great Essence or Infinite Self (No Jesus required vs John 14:6)and yet a Bhakti Hindu will believe in a God only knowable by serving and devotion, much like Christianity except they have millions of gods to pick from, not just one (Jesus). Further, not too long ago several Rabbis came out publicly to reiterate the vital and essential differences that keep Jews and Christians spiritually separate. To be blunt, saying “they all worship the same God” is insulting to the faithful.
God can mean different things to different people. I for instance, am a father to my children, son to my parents and a husband to my wife.
We may be like the blind men who went to “see”an elephant. The one who was behind felt the tail, and he described the elephant as being like ä brush”.
Another who was near a leg felt it, and said that the elephant is like a pillar. Another one who felt the trunk of the elephant said that an elephant is like a thick tapering rubber hose. Everyone believed that he was right and the others were wrong.
God is so vast for any one man or group of men to understand. We should only deal with God as we experience Him, and let others deal with Him as they understand it. The only solution is to act according to your conscience, and respect other people’s belief. The problem starts when I try to bring somebody else into my line of thinking. Instead of rejecting or ridiculing other people’s views, it may be advantageous to know about other people’s views, so that we all can form a more accurate picture of God.
This is probably what is expressed in Romans 14:4.
which talks about why we should not judge another’s faith because ultimately we are all judged by our own conscience. We’re all judged by our own beliefs, not someone else’s.
Tony,
I think we’ve found a common ground.
I love that story which has been told by Janists, Buddhists ans Muslims for ages.
Hey, Robert Taylor et al,
Consider that an important biblical understandin of “faith” is trust, not belief. If that is so, all of us can become one and stop bickering about which belief system is correct. Trust in God as even the dollar bill (ironic, no?) says.
Joan,
A couple responses to your comment. As I understand it, in the English language, belief is an inseparable component of faith and while I do agree with you that trust is important, trust (as a verb) is also equated with belief.
Also, what do you say to the non-theists?
John,
Interestingly enough, the root word for belief is related to the German word “lieben,” which translates to “love” in English, the primary call of the Gospel, however we subscribe to our particular doctrines.
I’ve been pondering your non-theist question, find your information about Buddhism and Hinduism very interesting, not knowing much about either. I guess what we all have in common is awe about this universe which we are part of. Somehow we in the West have personalized our ideas of life’s origins, making our participation in the universe like belonging to a family. whereas Easterners don’t seem to have. I can imagine that they also experience joy in belonging to this awesome life. How arrogant of us in the West to disparage their understanding of existence.
In the past decade I moved from urban life, where we are under the delusion that humans are in control. We live in boxes of our own making, moving from the box we live in via a box with wheels to a box we work in. Now I live in the high desert. Every day, as I look out to the vastness of the sky, the mountains and the desert, I am awestruck, probably for the first time in a long life. A simple rock tells a mysterious story.
I don’t know what I would tell a non-theist, I’d probably be more interested in what he/she would tell me.
Thanks, John. Did you know that your name (and mine!) means “gift of God?” May we live in a way to make that true!
Peace and joy, Joan
Comments
Yes, I believe miracles still do happen today. We need Faith to experience this miracle. My youngest sister was miraculously cured of her brain which was partly outside the membrane when she was born. My mother a great devotee of our Blessed Mother did not cease to pray to her and her Son, Jesus to cure the baby. My father was a medical doctor and knew the gravity of the baby’s situation. When the baby was a month old, she showed signs of the end of life. My mother never gave up and she continued praying to Our Mother of perpetual Help and after a time, the baby suddenly became active again and the brain which was partly outside went in by itself. Through x-rays these could be clearly seen. the doctors could not explain how it happened.
Rosie
Hello Perry et al and God bless you all.
I am way past the Biblical length of my stay here with you the quick, and so is my cousin up in his later years. He is always sending me e-mails about church’s and people who preach, and I’m just not where he is at in my relationship with our Lord Jesus. So my point in this post, not wanting to lead him astray in any way, is to display the answer I wrote him to see how many here, who themselves are having their personal relationships with our Lord Jesus the Christ, might disagree with my own personal assessments of my personal relationship with our Lord Jesus the Christ. The following then, is my reply to him.
Forget about Corporate churches!
We don’t have to go to any specific building some man designated to be a so called church, nor listen to someone who claims to know enough about our heavenly Father to be able to teach about him. Teaching and preaching are one thing, witnessing is quite another..Matthews 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Jesus Christ; and all ye are brethren. Get saved and taught by our Lord Jesus the Christ, not some man made Hocus Pocus! Matthews 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Because the “Church of Jesus Christ, is not a building of cold stones and mortar, nor an institution of calloused money grubbing administrators and hell fire and brimstone professors preaching garbage that they call religion, it’s a living “Church”, built with the Hearts of all the men, women and children of this world, who will willingly let our Lord Jesus enter in and direct our individual lives, as He will have us live them. Learn like you will live forever, but live like you will die tomorrow.
Jesus told Peter He would build “His Church” on him, that “ROCK”, ( The heart that Peter adored our Lord Jesus with.) the spiritual building stone, “Cephus” that together with all the other “STONES” will constitute “His Church”… It’s all about LOVE, not Power & Gold, like Earthly religious institutions are constantly soliciting it’s membership for.
That’s “Simony” And all Earthly church’s are guilty of it to one degree or another.
His “Church” is the one that the “Holy Ghost” dwells within, namely our hearts, that building “STONE” and it’s hidden, yet in plain sight of those who have eyes to see, and ears that hear, and the gates of hell, shall not prevail against it.
Matthews 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this “ROCK” will build “My Church“; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Except the “Truth“, no matter where you find “Him“.
Until we learn it’s our heart, which contains the “Holy Ghost”, and is the One we should let control us, we are in self-destruct mode.
Jesus controls our hearts, let our hearts control us, not our minds.
Matthews 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth: “Behold, He is in the secret chambers;… believe it not.
Matthews 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in SECRET; and thy Father which seeth in SECRET shall reward thee openly. Psalm 27:5 For in the time of trouble He shall hide me in His pavilion: in the SECRET of His tabernacle shall He hide me; He shall set me up upon a “ROCK“. Matthews 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this “ROCK” I will build My Church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
All Earthly religions are false because Jesus is the Holy Ghost, 1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.; and subsequently His Church, who He said was built on Peter, whom Jesus called the “ROCK”, was the FIRST disciple and man on Earth after Mary, Joseph, the three shepherds, Zacharias, Elisabeth, & John the Baptist, to know that Jesus was the Messiah, because God the Father in the Spirit told Him, not flesh and blood as His Son Jesus stated. John 6:65 And He said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto Me, except it were given unto him of My Father.
Therefore Jesus’ Church is a “SPIRITUAL” Church, not an Earthly church, and Peter’s ROCK is a building stone. Peters “HEART” will be added to Jesus’, the “Chief Corner Stone” of His Church, and everyone who’s eyes are opened by our Father in Heaven, will be the other “Building Stones” that will make up our Lord Jesus’ Church, and that’s not anything mankind can duplicate here on Earth.
So as our Lord Jesus said; “I will build My Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it!” Who needs earthly corrupted religions, or to listen to other sin filled men who don‘t really know anything, when we have a God so beautiful and all knowing, Living inside of us Teaching us individually, “person to Holy Father,” in the form of the “Holy Ghost?”
Not I, I need nothing more…. Thank You Lord Jesus!
God Bless You Darrell
Does your cousin not give credence to your spiritual knowledge and discernment? I agree the real truth comes from the Holy Spirit of God through Christ. (or Holy Ghost). Bible prophecy has enlightened many today to preach that we are living in the last days. Jeremiah 31:31-40 vs33 God tells the Israelite nation through Jeremiah “I will put my law within them, and in their hearts I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will be my people and they will no more teach each one their companion and each one their brother saying know YOUR Creator. For all will know me from the least to the greatest. etc… the whole chapter is inspirational.
You have advised your cousin to forget about Corporate Churches. I would not have gained spiritual knowledge if it were not for established religion, however I am thankful to belong to none except this internet site and I have just began to read literature from a Church which provides reliable information without being judgmental and hypocritical.
In the past I bought a good reference bible and books from a religious organisation. These have helped me develop scriptural understanding. If I had not had that opportunity I would not be in the situation you and I are in at present whereby Holy spirit can guide us. The people in that organisation judged and condemned me because serious problems and my life situation did not permit me to attend many meetings. Although informative books were well researched the people within the organisation were under Satanic mind control from the religious leaders.
Many who contributed to this church’s development were disfellowshipped. Some who voiced an independent viewpoint from the religious hierarchy were also put out of the organisation. I endured much scriptural persecution before I realised I would have to jump before being pushed and since I have left I have been instructed by God but I am grateful for the suffering and literature because both were aids for God to use in my spiritual development.
I now seek to learn and share thoughts through the internet and pray to my God, you and Perry don’t get sick of me and keep me out the same as the religious organisation I refer to did.
I appreciate your viewpoint Matthews 16:18 “‘Therefore Jesus’ Church is a “SPIRITUAL” Church, not an Earthly church, and Peter’s ROCK is a building stone. Peters “HEART” will be added to Jesus’, the “Chief Corner Stone” of His Church, and everyone who’s eyes are opened by our Father in Heaven, will be the other “Building Stones” that will make up our Lord Jesus’ Church, and that’s not anything mankind can duplicate here on Earth.
That enlightenment has opened my heart to a greater understanding of that scripture. Thank you so much for this contribution. Please continue to study and inspire because there will be lots more gems to share if you do. I believe the preaching work is important but dictatorial methods are counter productive. Reasoning from scripture is highlighting God,s love for us and you have witnessed to many who click on and read your comments.
I expect those who do not appreciate spirituality will balk at this input. Should that be so I pray they will see the light one day.
ps It is my belief that we should not argue about differences in understanding. So long as we give homage to the God of scripture and love his Son our neighbour even our enemies as Christ instructed (which can prove to be as a thorn in the flesh)and keep his commandments we should be useful in carrying out the will of our Heavenly Father..
Thank You for your nice complement June, my friend in Christ Jesus.
You stated; I expect those who do not appreciate spirituality will balk at this input. Should that be so I pray they will see the light one day.
ps It is my belief that we should not argue about differences in understanding. So long as we give homage to the God of scripture and love his Son our neighbor even our enemies as Christ instructed (which can prove to be as a thorn in the flesh ) and keep His commandments we should be useful in carrying out the will of our Heavenly Father..
Amen! You are certainly being taught by the “Comforter & Teacher” promised my friend. This scripture agrees with what you wrote so eloquently. John 14 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1John 3: 18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. Colossians 3:17 whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by Him. John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in My Word, then are ye My disciples indeed; John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are My disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 15:8 Herein is My Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be My disciples.
It’s my most firm and sincerest prayer that our Lord God, Jesus the Christ, in the form of the “Holy Ghost”, will continue blessing you June, in everything you endeavor. Your friend in Christ Jesus our Lord… darrell
Thank You Lord Jesus!
I want to pray for my father, mother & for my elder brother & for his son & wife. My Father has a pain in his joints my mother’s health is not good & my elder brother is in the habbit of drinking alcohol & he has no source of income his son & wife is faceing great problem in day to day life. I want that If god would give good health to my parents (father&mother) & if my brother will quit the habbit of driking & starts to income I will be greatful to him. Please suggest me
Please pray for me. Thank you
Dear Alok kumar, Jesus is not a Genie in a bottle kind of God. Of course we will pray that your situations get better but because we are a fallen species and because of Adam’s sin, we do not get the blessings of health and wealth (necessarily) in this life. Jesus is the God of grace first, and blessings second. Peace, Bill
Bill you are right that God is not a Genie but to say the we do not get blessings of health and wealth in this life is incorrect, my friend. And it is clearly shown in scripture and through the testimonies of those being healed by the power of Christ not only physically but also mentally, such as addictions etc etc
Have you not read accounts on this page?
oh and i will certainly pray for you Alok Kumar and your family.
God bless all!, Francesco
Miracles do still happen, so it appears.
Dear Alok
I do pray your father has the pain taken from his joints. I suffer from joint pain. When my back is in agony which is not often now that I have found lying on the floor and pressing flat cured this.
I pray your mother’s health improves for her as you ask.
I pray your elder brother comes to realise that drinking alchohol causes him to have depression and is keeping him from dealing with problems which then has a spiral effect taking away his self respect.
Your brother is also losing out on the love and respect of all his family and as you say it is sad for his wife and son. Even if work is difficult to obtain your brother and his family would have more happiness and cope better if he would give up drink. If your brother cannot control drink he should give up altogether. He owes it to himself; his wife; his son and you his sibling who happens to be a very loving caring person.
May God Bless you and your family Alok.
Nice TRUTHFUL” replies Anna & June;
The way I see it is, our Lord has made me aware of is this Nation being a “Christian” nation and it’s “Constitution” made manifest to us by the grace of our Lord Jesus the Christ for the sake of those who will survive the end times which we find ourselves faced with today. Voting the evil out at our voting booths won’t work, we must all be of one mind and belief to do this, and only collective prayer by His elect will serve to save what the Devil has already torn up and destroyed. Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
Men are liars, Jesus is Truth in Perfection.
We are to follow Jesus if we are walk in the Light of His Truth. Doing so will set us free from the bondage of sin and we will no longer desire the evils that living a corrupted life have forced on us from birth due to our surroundings and associates. He has provided us with the ability to live as He did, all we need to do is accept His offer of the Holy Ghost and be clothed with the power to live our lives in His Truth.
Let us accept Jesus as Truth and live each day with the confidence that His Word is True. Knowing that He is Truth, we will trust in Him, even though we may not always understand. We will believe His Word as we live our lives in Him, that way we can be certain that His Truth will be seen through us and the way we live together. 1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and His love is perfected in us. Jhn 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are My disciples, if ye have love one to another. Rom 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honor preferring one another; Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love, serve one another.
Since Jesus is Life, and he promised to give it to those who believe in Him, it is important to believe. Not only must one believe that Jesus gives eternal life, but one need not wait until heaven to begin to enjoy the life that God has granted through his Son. Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
It is through our Lord Jesus The Christ, that we can live our lives abundantly and enjoy whatever circumstances come our way because we can rest assured that He has overcome anything that may stand against us.
With what we are faced with at the voting polls, we will need a higher power on our side if we want to survive these Devils miscreants. Maybe this might help someone who needs a more secular approach to meeting our Lord God Jesus the Christ, and the perfection of His Perfect Wisdom. coming together in one place in His whole created universe, just for us to have a viewing platform so we can see the “TRUTH“ in the “Words“ & “Deeds“ of this tiny world He told His disciples about over two thousand years ago. Try viewing this movie on what mankind has learned about the place on which we stand, “One Planet, indivisible, under Jesus Christ our Lord and God.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnWyPIzTOTw
God bless you all in everything “Good” you endeavor through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Thank You Lord Jesus!
I’m touched by the testimonies; I have experienced quite some of God’s miraculous actions in my life, either through personal healing or provision by God at critical moments of need/lack. You have blessed my life with this presentation; of course, I am again trusting the Hand of God to move in my situation especially with regards to additional funding to upset my course fees at University. My wife, who is also my primary prayer partner keeps exhorting me about persevering no matter the uncertainty; there are times that I do feel like letting go but, I’m reminded of the hymn “I don’t need to understand…” “…I don’t need to understand; I just need to hold His Hand. I don’t need to ever ask the reason why. For I know He’ll make a way through the night and through the day…” Thank you very much for blessing my heart.
Perry, thanks for your latest email on healing. If you are up to it, you might look into the healings at the Catholic shrine of Lourdes. There seem to be a fairly small number of well-documented cases.
The lady who was supposedly healed from her wheelchair: she was already a singer/evangelist? And now she’s walking.
The credibility of this video is based on its publicity. The implied message here seems to be that, just because there’s a YouTube video and a news report, that it’s real. Further, the rhetoric of Perry’s article seems to imply — if you don’t immediately accept these stories as real — that you’re victim to the “spirit of atheism that’s alive and well within Christianity”.
That’s not the response of a critical thinker. A critical thinker would be asking some obvious questions: has anyone documented the nature of this woman’s injuries? Were they neurological in nature? Who is her doctor? Where are the medical records and what unbiased person reviewed them?
I’m not saying the woman wasn’t healed. I hope it’s real and that she was. And I’m willing to look past the fact that there’s a lot of nonsense, hoopla and show business around the actual event on the YouTube video. (When the preacher whipped off his necktie, I had to laugh. It’s a classic maneuver. I was surprised he didn’t shed his jacket and roll up his sleeves.)
So, I hope it’s real. But without some confirmation of what actually happened medically, the video alone doesn’t show me much. Just that a woman in a wheelchair stood up.
If you investigate the Delia Knox miracle you may find some medical documentation; you may not.
That said, why do you need a doctor to verify that Delia Knox was paralyzed for 23 years? Google her and start sifting through the links. There’s a picture of her in her wheelchair on the Mobile Alabama Press-Register website, the picture was taken in 2007. She’s been a public figure for years and she’s always been seen in her wheelchair. And you can watch the video of her rising out of that wheelchair with your own two eyes.
In any case, if you get Richard Casdorph’s book “Real Miracles” which I mention several times in this blog post you will find exactly the kind of medical evidence you are asking for. Doctor’s reports, case histories, analysis, etc.
Miracles today , and years from now , science.