7 Great Lies of Organized Religion – Lie #8
Where I grew up, they said: “Miracles don’t happen anymore. They ceased with the disciples.” I believed what they told me.
Dozens of personal experiences and medically documented cases have caused me to do a 180 on this. Miracles are REAL. The idea that miracles are fake is literally the 8th lie of Organized Religion. (Fake miracles masquerading as real ones are the other side of that coin, by the way… and there are many fake miracles.)
Miracles are far more common than many would have you believe. Today, I share several of my own personal experiences. And several thoroughly documented events.
Before we dig in, I need to tell you a conversation with my younger brother Bryan, whose story I tell in my book Evolution 2.0 and on my site www.cosmicfingerprints.com.
Bryan had gotten a Master’s Degree in Theology at Master’s Seminary in Southern California. Master’s is very conservative and holds a doctrinal position that miracles ceased after the disciples. He’d spent time in the ministry including a stint as a missionary. Because of mounting doubts, he was bailing on the whole thing.
He says to me:
“Perry, I’ve studied the New Testament inside and out. I’ve studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. And you know what? There is NOTHING in the Bible whatsoever to suggest that miracles should stop.
“So… WHERE’S THE MIRACLES???”
I rifle through my mental file folders. I’ve heard lots of stories 3rd hand. No personal experiences of my own to report.
(Gulp.)
He continues: “Every single supposed ‘miracle’ can be explained by sleight of hand, placebo effect, or wishful thinking. There’s no such thing as a medically documented miracle.”
He was definitely right about the New Testament part. Nowhere is there so much as a hint that the miracles were going to go away. In fact miracles are held out as proof of the authenticity of Jesus as the Son of God. From healing the paralytic to forgiving sins to feeding the 5000 to rising from the dead, all are offered as things only God can do.
I was quite concerned that he was right about the placebo effect and the wishful thinking. Made me queasy.
Felt like a sucker. A mark. Gullible.
Plus, when you turn on the TV and see the faith healers plying their trade, most of us run out of the room screaming. Educated people are way too smart for that, right?
What if all this stuff about miracles is hocus-pocus and Santa Claus? What an icky, shameful feeling.
My eyes were suddenly wide open for information that would either confirm or deny this.
For several months I was almost persuaded that he might be right.
But little by little things started happening. The evidence began to point the other way.
Experience #1: I had lunch near Cincinnati Ohio with an old co-worker named Charlie Keck. September 27, 2002. Charlie was an engineer who lived in Tipp City Ohio. His wife was named Geri, and she’d had lupus.
She’d *had* lupus. But she didn’t have it anymore.
She and Charlie had treated it for years, prayed for years that it would be healed, and it wouldn’t budge.
Then one morning at her Bible study, a woman suddenly stood up and said, “God just told me to pray for you, to be healed, RIGHT NOW.”
So they did. And Geri felt this warm sensation flushing through her abdomen and the lupus was healed. Just like that. No more doctor visits, no more treatments. The whole chronic disease, gone.
Experience #2: I got to Rajahmundry, India in June 2007 with the customer service manager at my company, Jeremy Flanagan. Jeremy, as it turns out, has been having experiences like this himself. Healing people.
At a church service one Sunday, the pastor, Isaiah Gottimukkala, invites anybody who wants any kind of healing prayer to line up in front of Jeremy. Jeremy calls me over to help him and we start prayin’ for people.
One woman, maybe 60 years old, had fallen a year ago and hurt her arm. She could not raise her elbow past the middle of her chest. When she moved her arm up and down she complained that her shoulder would crack and pop and Jeremy and I could feel that too, when we put our hands on her shoulder when she’d move it.
He started praying for her. Probably spent 15 minutes. By the time Jeremy was done both shoulders felt identical, there was no cracking and she could raise her arm above her head on her own strength.
I asked her to do it for me and I snapped a picture. She said it didn’t hurt anymore and both arms were equally good.
Another lady, Mary, maybe 30 years old, had somewhat recently had brain surgery to remove a cancerous tumor. She pulled her hair back and I could tell just brushing my hand over her head that there was a big piece of her skull taken out and a large indention on her head.
She complained that she’d been having seizures since the operation, and she has had no feeling anywhere in her left arm.
Jeremy started praying that God would heal her entire skull and put everything back. We prayed for her and prayed for her. After about a half hour her head hadn’t changed but she started feeling tingling on her skin and by the time we were done, she said she could feel everything with her left arm exactly like her right arm.
No success on her skull filling in. Not yet anyway. But she was VERY excited about the feeling come back in her left arm!
We go home, and 2 months later I email Pastor Isaiah’s brother, Ananth. I want to know if these people are “still healed.” (Or did the problems come back? It sometimes happens.) Here’s his reply:
Respected Mr. Perry Marshall,
Greetings from India!
Thank you very much for your prayers.
Your trip to India was amazing. Many were healed and increased their faith in God. They are sharing their testimony to many people. Many times they are asking about you and Mr. Jeremy for prayers. We told them that next year definitely they will come to pray for you and for many.
I would like to share the testimony of my Grand mother(My father’s mother). Her name is Mrs. Suvarthamma and her age is 75. She was suffering from severe headache and neck pain from so many years and also if she takes anything from her mouth she will be feeling pain in her throat.
After your prayers She is completely healed. She is very happy and doing all the works easily irrespecitve of her age. God did miracle in her life through your prayers.
Another women named Mrs. Mary, Her age is 30. She had operation on her head. Hair was fully sworn and the head was like smooth sponge. She used to have pain on her head daily. and also her hand is not working and she doesnt have any feeling on her hand.
After your prayers she bacame healed. She feels her hand and she can do works with that hand normally as another hand. Praise the Lord.
Every one hearing of her witness, asking us about you and requesting us to bring you back to India.
These are some of the Miracles happend because of your prayers.
My brother Pastor Isaiah and his wife Surekha and all the boys of the Rajah Boys Home and Pastors in the Deep Forest are sending their greetings to you.
Thanking you Sir,
Yours faithfully,
Ananth
I’ve told you about two people there in Rajahmundry India. There were many more – most got some benefit, some didn’t seem to get any. These are the most dramatic examples of what happened. But I’ll tell you one thing: I learned that prayer CHANGES things. Especially when administered the way the apostles always said to.
I fully understand that a lot of people reading this are very, very skeptical.
As well you should be.
After all, you weren’t there. You only have my word to go on.
Well, I forgot to bring my portable MRI machine on the plane so I could do before / after scans of all these people, and as concerns this particular event, my own eyewitness testimony is about as good as I can provide right here.
If you’ll stick with me, later in this article I’ll give you information on publicly documented miracles that you can investigate for yourself. Meanwhile I’ve got more personal experiences to share.
Todd Bentley: A crazy, controversial guy, but some of his miracles were real.
Experience #3: In the spring of 2008 a “revival” broke out in Lakeland Florida. Hugely controversial. A guy named Todd Bentley, a Canadian Harley-riding preacher guy with jeans and cowboy boots and covered with tattoos started healing people in this crazy tent meeting.
It grew and grew until 5,000 to 10,000 people were showing up every single night. This went on until August 2008. The whole thing caved in when Bentley was found to be having an affair with one of his staff members.
(Hey, I told you this thing was controversial. Wait, there’s more…)
I jumped on a plane and flew there to see the whole thing for myself. I was there May 27, 2008.
On the hotel shuttle bus to the meeting I met a woman from Hong Kong who had flown to London to pick up her daughter, a college student who had severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The daughter was skinny as a rail and looked like the walking dead. They were there to get healing.
I get there and the whole place is a freaking nuthouse. Loud music, crazy people dancing and singing, and rolling around on the floor. This Todd Bentley guy is marching around the stage, shouting, kicking people, slapping them, proclaiming them healed.
Across the stage the people go. Bentley is yelling all kinds of proclamations. At one point he stops and says:
“I’m telling you right now, somebody in here has been deaf in one ear for 34 years. Who is that? Thirty-four years deaf. The Lord just spoke to me. Come up here.”
I’m in the center section near the back. About 20 feet from me, over my shoulder and to the right, a guy raises his hand. “That’s me. I went deaf from a gunshot 34 years ago today.”
Bentley prays for him and he’s healed, instantly. You can watch this in this video:
The man’s name was Brian Burgee. He’s pastor of Rock Church of Tampa Bay.
Brian’s story was reported in the Charlotte Observer on June 19, 2008. You can read it here.
I met Charles Chandler, the reporter who wrote it. We have a mutual friend who lives in North Carolina. Chandler followed up with the people described in the article personally and checked their stories.
I was there that night. I saw it happen with my own two eyes.
This article is referenced on Wikipedia. My neighbor is the editor in charge of the Todd Bentley page on Wikipedia. The healings in Lakeland were such a hot potato, most of the mainstream media wouldn’t touch it.
When people are really getting healed and things are happening that the establishment claims are impossible, mostly what you get is silence. Or irrational protests from people who still insist it’s impossible.
(Not all that different from atheists trying to tell me DNA isn’t actually a code.)
Jeronimo and Noemia Cessito, Beira, Mozambique
Experience #4: I have a friend named Noemia Cessito. She and her husband Jeronimo run a school, church, AIDS hospice, medical clinic and feeding program in Beira, Mozambique. I went to visit them in the summer of 2003.
Mozambique is extremely poor. Luxuries that westerners take for granted are simply unheard of there.
Noemia tells this strange story:
When I arrived in Mozambique in 1984, the country was in the middle of a 15 year civil war. It was a hard time. A lot of people were dying not just from the fighting but from starvation.
One evening our church met for prayer. People started to pray for things like shoes, a chair, a shirt, a loaf of bread. I never heard anyone pray for a pair of shoes or a loaf of bread before. I had always prayed: “Lord, please provide for my needs.”
So, I was sitting beside this little six year old girl and we divided into pairs to pray. That little girl began to pray, “Oh God, give shoes to my brother, Carlos. Oh, God, give some some bread to my sister Maria. And I said “Amen” to each of her requests.
Later at home, I got down on my knees to pray some more and when I was kneeling, I was trying to pray for the war because I had heard about a terrible battle on the Zamebezi river.
In the middle of thinking about that, I got this desire for some ice cream. I thought, “Good Lord! How could I possibly think about ice cream now when there is so much war and starvation?” But yet, deep in my heart, I heard a voice saying, “Ask for some ice cream from God.”
I ignored the thought. How could I possibly ask for ice cream when so many people are starving and are in so much need? I continued to pray. But my mouth started to water because I so wanted to have some ice cream. And then I began to cry. I didn’t have the courage to say, “God, please give me some ice cream.” I knew that I could, but I didn’t have the courage.
But, then at the end of my prayer, I said to God, “God, I would sure love to taste some ice cream.” And then, I cried some more. I thought, how selfish can I be! There are so many suffering and starving. I was crying because I was homesick for Brazil, and I so wanted a taste of ice cream.
About noon the next day a truck from Zimbabwe drove up to the door where I was staying and the driver got out and knocked. He wanted someone named, Naomi. I didn’t understand English at that time but he kept saying Naomi, Naomi and I finally realized that Naomi must be my name in English.
So I took the package and when I touched it my heart froze. I knew right away what it was because the box was cold.
So I asked the driver, “Who sent this? Where did it come from?” He didn’t understand me but finally through gestures I got out of him that someone at the airport gave him that box to deliver to “Naomi.” It had been flown in on a plane from South Africa. To this day I have no idea who sent it or where it came from.
Well, I put that little carton of ice cream in the freezer of the refrigerator with a sense of overwhelming gratitude. It was then that I began to understand that I can ask from God even the most insignificant things.
Since then I’ve faced a lot of hard times. I’ve nearly died of malaria, and I’ve gone hungry. But, as the many difficulties arose, I would remember that carton of ice cream. It’s the biggest lesson of my life.
Experience #5: I’ve got a friend named Jess Smiley. She and her husband Sam live about 2 miles from my house. We go to church together.
Jess feels the sorrow, but sings anyway
The last 7 years have been HARD on Jess.
7 years ago her husband Jamie contracted leukemia, a form that is lethal. After a 2 year battle she lost him.
In the fall of 2007 her son Alex was 11 years old. He had started developing bruises on his skin and a doctor’s appointment revealed that he too had leukemia.
Wow. An 11 year old boy with leukemia. Imagine facing that.
Alex went through 9 months of brutal chemotherapy treatments and it went into remission.
18 months later, it came back. With a vengeance.
More chemotherapy. More prayers. More desperation.
Alex chose to stand up and FIGHT.
Since Alex was losing his hair, several of his friends, including Dylan Fancher, all decided to shave their heads as a sign of Solidarity with Alex during his healing and recovery process.
Below is a video of Alex shaving Dylan’s head in the restroom of Alex’s hospital room:
Alex Smiley shaves Dylan Fancher’s head: Solidarity, and Friends Forever
Just the day before, Alex had begun his Chemo treatments. (The joy of shaving Dylan’s head sorta made up for the first day of chemo.)
That was July 6, 2009.
On Wednesday, October 14, 2009, an infection raged out of control and Alex died. A young man full of promise, gone at age 13.
Jess had remarried since Jamie’s death. She lost both her husband and first-born son to leukemia.
She made it through Alex’s funeral under the care of friends, lots of prayer and a couple pints of vodka.
Words cannot express how grieved we all were. We all prayed so hard. For Alex to be healed. For this curse to be lifted. But Alex lost the battle. For whatever reason, rescue did not come.
Jess soldiered on.
It just so happens that we were with Jess at a church conference in Toronto. On the night of January 20, 2010, God SPOKE to Jess and in a moment of laser clarity, showing her that He was pushing a “reset” button on the destiny she thought she had lost. He was restoring to her what she thought was no more.
That night God also gave her an impartation of JOY and LAUGHTER.
The bitterness and the grief melted away and she began laughing with delight. For weeks she was almost giddy and exuberant.
It was like nothing I had ever seen.
All I can say is, you had to see it for yourself to fully appreciate it. I’ve told you some miracle stories. People getting healed of lupus, deafness and paralysis are all remarkable. But being healed from aching loss and sickening sorrow over a lost husband and dear son – that one takes the cake.
It’s not that she doesn’t miss Alex or Jamie. Or that she doesn’t still grieve. It’s just that the bitter sting has been taken out. Jess experienced a literal impartation of the beautiful scripture of Isaiah 61:
For those who grieve in Zion— to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair. They will be called oaks of righteousness, a planting of the LORD for the display of his splendor.
They will rebuild the ancient ruins and restore the places long devastated; they will renew the ruined cities that have been devastated for generations.
My friend, I do not know why Alex and her husband were taken from us. God alone knows the answer to that question.
But God did minister to her in her sorrow in a most profound way.
YOU have also lost loved ones.
YOU have also had unanswered prayers. We all have. I know the feeling of exasperation and desperation when you pray and it feels as though those prayers are bouncing off the ceiling.
Jess Smiley knows that feeling too. Believe me, she does.
You pray for the uncle or aunt or grandpa or child. Your prayer doesn’t get answered the way you want it to. It’s bitter and dark.
But you know what…
You only have to experience ONE undeniable miracle and then you KNOW. After that, there is no going back.
And that’s what happened to me. I’ve only shared a small collection of stories. There are others. They’re real and I’ve seen them with my own two eyes.
Experience #6: 0n April 17, 2012, I was at a conference in Moravian Falls, North Carolina, sitting right next to a woman named Dierdre from Sydney Australia when she was healed after 40 years of severe hearing loss in one ear. Here’s me interviewing her about what happened:
Remember Brian Burgee from Tampa Florida, above, who was deaf in one ear and was healed in 2008? With the Dierdre experience I have now seen TWO people who were healed from deafness in one ear, both from childhood accidents, both deaf in that ear for more than 30 years. I was a personal direct witness and I have both testimonies on video. Recall that Burgee’s healing was also verified by reporter from the Charlotte Observer.
I solemnly attest to you that all these people and experiences are true and I have reported them to the best of my ability.
I will never again be at the mercy of theories from someone who thinks miracles are fake. Cuz I know they’re real.
But they are my experiences not yours.
Do you want God to show up in your life?
Then right now I give you permission to ASK HIM. If you seek God you will find Him.
But there’s something else I wish to offer you as well.
And that is:
Documented evidence of other miracles.
1. The book “Real Miracles” by Richard Casdorph, M.D., medically documents 10 miracles. Each chapter is a case study of one miracle, including doctors reports, xrays, etc. It reports ailments like huge tumors, Multiple Sclerosis and cancer vanishing completely, with medical documentation.
If you’re the least bit curious about this, just go ahead and buy the book. It’s on Amazon.
2. In Catholic circles, the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima on October 13, 1917 is very well known and has been exhaustively documented. Literally 70,000 people including all kinds of newspaper reporters and people of every age and background testified to what happened near Fatima, Portugal. The event was predicted in advance on July 13, August 19 and September 13 that same year by three children. Which is why thousands of people were there to witness it.
Wikipedia does a good job of summarizing what happened. (Yes, I understand, if you’re a protestant you probably don’t relate to the “Virgin Mary” stuff. That’s OK. There’s no rule that says you have to.) I encourage you to study the event for yourself and see if there isn’t substantial evidence that something miraculous occurred.
3. In September 2010, the Southern Medical Journal published an article titled: Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Proximal Intercessory Prayer (STEPP) on Auditory and Visual Impairments in Rural Mozambique. The official publication can be found here and the original authored manuscript from Indiana University can be found here. 24 people were tested; hearing of deaf subjects improved by 10-60 decibels. Vision of some of the blind subjects also improved, ranging from none to 15X.
I am personally only 1 degree of separation from the healers involved in this study. Here in Chicago I have some friends Nathan and Liz Stanton. They were married in Mozambique by pastor Heidi Baker who is a missionary there. For the Southern Medical Journal research, Heidi Baker partnered with Global Awakening in Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania, who sent a teaching team to my own church not long ago.
Heidi Baker is well-known in Mozambique for going into villages, asking villagers to bring her their deaf, then healing them. At minute 5:56 you’ll see Heidi Baker heal a deaf woman in front of a large crowd of people, live:
This video is an excerpt from the movie Finger of God. by Darren Wilson. He’s the narrator of this documentary. I’m personally acquainted with him, having met him in November 2009. Darren himself was ardently against miracles until a relative experienced a miracle he could not explain, which launched him on a journey of investigation.
4. On Friday August 30 2010, Delia Knox was healed after two decades of paralysis. She stood up in her wheelchair in the Mobile Alabama Convention Center and walked around the room in the presence of thousands of eyewitnesses.
The following report appeared in the Mobile Alabama Press-Register, September 2, 2010:
MOBILE, Alabama — On Christmas Day 1987 singer and evangelist Delia Knox lost the use of her legs after a car she was a passenger in was struck by another vehicle driven by a drunken driver.
Now, on a video made last Friday, Knox is seen walking for the first time in 22 years during a revival at the Arthur R. Outlaw Mobile Convention Center.
The video, which is on YouTube and on the site of the Mobile church run by Knox and her husband, Levy Knox, is said to be a testament to not one, but numerous miracles said to have taken place during the Bay of the Holy Spirit Revival.
You can watch the YouTube video of the live healing taking place here:
On Thursday October 21, 2010, Delia Knox returned to her home town of Buffalo, New York and into her mother’s arms. The local TV station WIVB Channel 4 taped the homecoming and reported the healing:
Delia Knox and her husband Levy, next to her wheelchair
Finally there are some things that need to be said about miracles. Quoting 1 Corinthians 12:28:
“And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
“Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts.”
If you’re a Christian, I challenge you with this:
Much of the church has been actively disobeying this. These verses clearly present a hierarchy of authority and gifts:
1. Apostles
2. Prophets
3. Teachers
4. Workers of Miracles
5. Healers
6. Helpers
7. Administrators
8. Those who speak in tongues
The protestant church has amputated #1, #2, #4, #5 and #8. The teachers and administrators have been left in charge.
Paul said to desire the greater gifts.
I know pastors and seminary professors who’ve been fired from their jobs because they believed in miracles. How tragic and anti-Christian that is. I have a friend who had severe ADHD and was deaf in one ear. He was healed of both at once in May 2007. He won’t let me use his name and picture here on my blog because his father is a prominent figure in evangelical Christianity and news of a miracles might threaten his dad’s career.
And we wonder why the church is anemic??? We wonder why there’s an atheistic bias in the western world? It’s no surprise church has become a flaccid, legalistic, boring institution. A dreary way to kill an otherwise enjoyable Sunday morning.
It’s because 5 out of the 8 spark plugs have been yanked out. The engine is coughing and sputtering on 3 of its 8 cylinders.
Why are “Cessationist” arguments invariably so complex and insert all kinds of assumptions which themselves have no scriptural support?
MANY Christians say to me, “Absolutely I believe God still heals. God can do anything He wants to. God just does it whenever he chooses to now. He doesn’t heal through healers.”
If that’s you, I’ve got a question for you:
Can you show me ONE place in scripture – Old or New Testament – where ANY person was healed without a healer?
The church has sliced off one of its testicles and thrown it in the garbage. No wonder it doesn’t feel like a man.
This is one of the reasons that TV healing ministries have become such a circus: it’s partly because most of Christianity has marginalized the healing gifts. This is why some healers are charlatans. But it’s a whole different world when you see people whom you’ve known for years get healed in person, with your own eyes – not on TV. When you experience it for yourself, like I have.
When the church begins to operate on all 8 cylinders, it becomes a force to be reckoned with. As all my friends who’ve been healed will attest. The atheists and cynics and religious gestapo can whine and moan all they want to, but real people are being set free every day.
(Oh, and I haven’t said a single word about the awesome power of prophetic people. I’ll save that discussion for another post.)
In Matthew 11, Jesus’ cousin John the Baptist was in prison. He was depressed and discouraged. Nothing was going the way he’d planned. He had grave doubts because his prayers weren’t being answered.
John sent a message to Jesus.
When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, “Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?”
Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me.”
Amen.
Perry Marshall
P.S.: There’s a popular atheist jingoism these days: “Why doesn’t God heal amputees?” It’s often stated with spitting anger and venom. The assertion is made that there’s no such thing as an amputee whose arm grew back. This held up as proof positive that miracles don’t exist.
To date I haven’t personally met an amputee whose arm has grown back. Today I told you what I have seen. The closest I’ve come is my friend Yosef Bender from Chicago. Yosef was at a Kathryn Kuhlman healing service many years ago. (Casdorph’s book “Real Miracles” investigates 10 of Ms. Kuhlman’s healing incidents.) Behind Yosef was a woman who had one arm that was too short with a single finger at the end instead of a hand.
From the stage, Kuhlman called out that there was someone up in that section whose arm was deformed. A few seconds later, Yosef heard this intense commotion and loud crying behind him. He turned around and this woman’s hand had fully grown back. She was so happy she was crying hysterically.
This is as close as I’ve personally gotten to a healed amputee.
Documented histories of healed amputees do exist. The Miracle of Calanda occurred in Calanda, Spain in 1640, according to 17th century documents. The documents state that a young farmer’s leg was restored to him after having been amputated two and a half years earlier. This event is described in detail in the book Il Miracolo by Vittorio Messori. This is described in detail on Wikipedia.
I rather suspect there are at least a few healed amputees out there. Will the skeptics listen to their stories? I don’t know. Will they change the skeptics’ minds? I don’t know. But if you want to think for yourself investigate these things on your own, I recommend that you start by reading “Real Miracles” by Richard Casdorph, M.D.
Dear Perry,
I believe that something so called Miracle is just a science that has not been discovered by mankind.
If we bring this cellular phone or TV broadcast technology back to one thousand year ago, people at that era would definitely say it is miracle too. The book’s authors at that time certainly use the word “miracle” for something they don’t understand. So as we at this era, believe miracles “still” happen for something we don’t understand right now.
Why today have “lesser” miracles? because there are more science and knowledges have been discovered by mankind.
Many of ritual things in any religion might unconsciously use a undiscovered scientific method of doing things such as fengsui, healing, transporting something like telekinetic, telepathy, or insert some materials contactless into human body like what we still called a magic or miracle today.
We, especially christian, have been too naïve understand every words in Bible and wrongly interprete it as it is written in metaphors language.
So the conclusion is: God never do something against His nature laws and rules.
Let’s say that you’re right, a Miracle is just a science that has not been discovered by mankind.
Makes no difference. Because it’s still a science that is invoked by prayer and the laying on of hands, not by the manipulation of instruments in a laboratory.
Perry,
My family also experienced a miracle. One day my elest son who was in high school came home one day with his right arm broken, practically dangling. We brought him to the orthopedic hospital and the doctors put a cast on it and we were told to come back one month after with the money to pay for the metal that would be inserted in the arm. We don’t have the money so my wife and I decided to pray over my son for healing of his arm. When the scheduled day for my son’s return to the hospital came, the arm was X-rayed, a requirement before operation. The doctor could not believe it was whole again.
constantino
I have never written before, but this subject is very personnel to me.
Jesus still preforms miracles and all anyone needs is faith to reap the ben=
efits of his mercy.
I was a non believer in god until Jesus made a healing miracle on me person=
ally. Something no doctor was able to do in 9 years time Jesus did in a few=
seconds, after which I became a believer that Jesus was real. I used to ta=
ke my wife to church thinking they were all a bunch of nuts in a building w=
ith false hopes until I gave in to a momentary act of faith and asked Jesus=
to heal me. Well I am living proof of the power of miracles that Jesus is =
still doing today.
My testimonial is a very interesting story and now me and my wife work with=
God out of our home in Rio De Janeiro Brazil Ministering to those that are=
in need. When I tell non-believers and those that already believe what god=
did for me its great to see the holy-spirit at work just through words tha=
t I have the opportunity to share about the miracles Jesus offers=A0 to eve=
ryone that is willing to just ask.
I have read many of the remarks in the blog regarding this and am surprised=
there are so many that call themselves Christian that would even for 1 sec=
ond doubt the power of GOD
If anyone wants to see the power of healing that Jesus offers all they real=
ly need to do is have the belief that it is possible and ask him for his he=
lp. God is a loving God and he is here for both those that believe and thos=
e that are yet to open up to his love
If you make it to Rio look us up
Warm Wishes
Eric Karukin
I am in Cambodia and have been taught a history lesson. The current prime minister is Hun Sen a former Khmer Rouge child killer and psychopath. He is a multi-millionaire with his own army and he declared that if he wasn’t elected into office there would be a civil war. Nice guy! How did a former Khmer Rouge soldier become a millionaire? He is the head of a family mafia and controls all the big industries and achieved his weath through corruption, filtering off aid money, and what have you. When you think of the terrible suffering caused by the genocide of which he was instrumental, I shall never believe there is a God. How could a God allow that beast to go unchallenged? God could easily strike him down but he continues to thrive with his riches. When I see that kind of evil unchalleged I do not believe in God.
Martin,
Thank you for telling the real reason why you’ve doubted God. Tell us exactly, in detail, what you feel God should do with this person.
Perry I wish I could answer that with the concern and foregiveness of a Christian but I am only a human being with the mind of a human being. Normally I would foregive most transgressors if they were trully repentant and did everything possible to right their wrongs. But that animal with the blood of millions on his hands after which he threatens to cause more suffering with his private army if he doesn’t get what he wants is beyond redemption. I have no idea what God can do as pay back, but if he struck him dead there would be millions of happy Cambodians.
Actually I’m not asking you to respond like a Christian at all. I’m just asking, if God enforced justice as you would like him to, what would he do about this tyrant?
What about a quick heart attack? I am searching my mind to think of an answer consistent with biblical authority or something esoteric but I am sorry I can’t. This man through his ingenuity and with the help of his followers managed to escape justice through the International Criminal Court, The Hague. He is as reprehensible as Hitler and Stalin. At least Hitler’s fellow Nazis were prosecuted after the war. This man was instrumental to one of the worlds worst genocides. If we can’t administer justice because of our inadequacy surely we can call on God to do it. If he exists nothing is beyond him. Is there anything wrong in that suggestion?
Friend, you need to know a key thing
With God, there is no smaller bad or bigger ones. For him, even just hating your friend who betrayed you is the same as killing thousands of human being. (why? because God created that guy that you hate, and God loves him, and want him to change, but you, you want him to be punished. God has his punishment date, and you can’t wait for it, which is the eternal hell. In this life God punish as a father, not as a one who hates). With God, he wants us to love each other, even your enemy, pray for them (not to prosper only, but first to change, and receive the mercy of God)
So if you want God banish the bad on the earth, you are one of those that merit heart attack, and no one can live on this earth, because all has sinned before God. Can you tell me that if you count the people that you lie to, can you tell me that it is less than 100 people ? even just during your childhood is already more than 100! And liar is the most enemy of God, because Devil is the father of liar, and Jesus the king of truth. Jesus said recorded in John 18:37:”My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place…. You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
What I want to say is said by the bible recorded in the book of Ezekiel 18:23 “Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?”
So if you take pleasure on the death of Hitler and Stalin, then you take pleasure on where God doesn’t.
Anyway, bad happens on this world, not because of God, but because of us who sinned. And don’t ask God to stop it, because it is just the result of our (as human being, not personal) actions, if you want to be safe, just be under the protection of the LIVING GOD.
Regarding: “A heretic is one who deviates from the teaching of the church. Since the RC is the original church, those who keep her teachings are not heretics. Those who do not keep them are.
”
This is a somewhat misleading statement. It’s important to clearly define what is the “Church” and what is a true teaching of the church. Much misunderstanding among Catholics and between Catholics and protestants has come from people who think that everything a pope or member of the Magisterium says is an infallible teaching of the church. If you are Roman Catholic, ask your priest about this. Such belief is incorrect. With regard to Roman Catholicism, there is the Magisterium, which is said to be a source of infallible teachings, because of the involvement of the Holy Spirit, or charism of the Holy Trinity, the Magisterium. However, there is a heresy, called “Magisteriumism”, which a heresy recognized by the Roman Catholic Church. Rather than try to describe this heresy here, it is recommended that you google the term and see what you can learn about it. It would be healthy for all Christians to learn more about the true teachings of the church and what, exactly, the Roman Catholic church considers heresy versus official teachigs of the RC church. They’re not what most seem to believe.
Dear Jim,
I referred to encarta dictionary. Here’s how heresy is defined: Heresy, 1) an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching, especially one that is officially condemned by a religious authority. 2) Holding of unorthodox religious belief. 3) An opinion or belief that does not coincide with established theory, especially in philosophy, science, or politics. I will google on magisteriumism and I will reply afterwards. Thanks
constantino
Seems to be the correct definition. :)
I am not out to defend the vatican. It must do that on its own.
The point about the heresy of Magisteriumism is that the RC church recognizes, as it must, that true teachings can come not only from the Magisterium but from lay people when the Holy Spirit speaks through them. Therefore, the RC church recognizes that it is a “heresy” to say that true teachings can come only from the pope or bishops of the Magisterium. The RC church also recognizes that it is heresy to believe that all statements or writings by the pope or bishops of the Magisterium are infallible.
If you are Roman Catholic, inquire about this with your priest. I would like to hear what they say.
Btw – this brings us to the original topic of this forum, regarding miracles. I have witnessed miracles performed by lay people, proof that the Holy Spirit does indeed work through lay people. If a lay person is capable of perform miracles by exercising a charism of the Holy Spirit, then I ask the question: are they also capable of making infallible statements, or not?
Replying to my own post: So, I am embarrassed to admit that I had not googled the term, myself. When I did, I found much disagreement out there. A Catholic scholar, Ron Conte, seems to have coined the term. Although, I think I might agree with the concept of “magisteriumism”, I must admit that I was taken in by others with regard to official church teaching, which is a dissapointment. At this point, I must say that I do not know for certain what the RC church teaches. Lesson learned! (This should show you that I’m not in this forum to teach but to learn…)
This is what I believe heresy to be: It is neither apostasy nor schism. Heresy, in a Christian context, can only be committed by one who is baptised and is unwilling to be corrected with regard to a Christian truth. If a person is willing to be corrected, they are not committing heresy.
I am not RC biased. However, I was raised Roman Catholic and was taught many things by priests and nuns that seem contrary to the public view of Catholicism. One being that the pope and bishops (of the Magisterium) can make “fallible” statements and that infallibility is rarely exercised. I believe this is the actual teaching of the RC church and I’m more comfortable with this, since only God is infallible; but just as God can work miracles through ordinary people, so can God give us true teachings – through ordinary people, be they lay person, protestant minister, or pope – but only so long as it is the Holy Spirit working through them. To deny this would also appear to deny some very basic beliefs of Christianity. A primary concern about the RC church is the apparent tendency to minimize the workings of the Holy Spirit and Christ through ordinary people.
Since the Holy Spirit is promised by Jesus to all people as a “helper”; and since Apostle Paul taught us to seek the formation of Christ within; and since Jesus said one who has the Son has the Father; then it makes sense that all Christians are capable of manifesting the charism of the Holy Trinity, which the RC church refers to as the charism of the Magisterium. Therefore, in a Christian context, would it be heresy, or not, to deny that any true Christian can be the source of true teachings, just as is claimed by the RC Magisterium? I am seeking the honest answer.
So, bringing this discussion back to miracles: What do you think about the idea of the Holy Spirit, the promised “helper who will teach us everything about God”, providing true teachings through ordinary people? Is this any different than working miracles through ordinary people? If so, how? If miracles have ceased, wouldn’t that also mean the Holy Spirit has ceased working in & through us?
Anna,
I have read your “thesis” and will pray for you that you truly receive the truth. Just because you heard a “voice” does not mean that voice was from God. The gospel of John teaches us to “test every spirit.”
It is written that Jesus said anyone who cries, “Fool! Fool!” will be answerable for this in the fires of gehenna. Yes this was a garbage dump outside the city back then but we know what He meant. So, I will not cry, “Fool!” but feel compelled to see if I can help make some sense of this debate. Anna, since you have already written a “thesis”, I expect it may be difficult for you to see any other “truth”. I urge you to allow your cup to be emptied so the it can be filled by Jesus Christ. All should recognize that no human is infallible. Only God is infallible. If you are totally convinced that you are right about everything you believe and not open to admission to the truth where you are errant then you are in danger of committing heresy. (Roman Catholics, if you understand the Magisterium then you will agree with what I say.)
Anna, based on your writing, it’s obvious that you have far more questions than answers. Be careful not to twist Scriptures and take them out of context in order to support a private agenda. Such perversion of Scriptures can lead to heresy. I’m not accusing you of heresy but warning you to be careful for the sake of your own soul and others you might lead astray.
Your paper is very short on fact, rich in opinion, and has only convinced me that you are very confused and unsure of the meaning of even the scriptures you quote. This is aside from the debate regarding the authenticity of Marian apparitions. You should strive to be on a more solid theological and Scriptural foundation before attempting to enter such debates.
At one point in your paper, you take the writing of an ordinary woman and somehow try to make a case that her writings are the official teachings of the RC church. You have provided nothing that shows whether or not the RC church even recognized what she wrote as authentic nor any commentary from the church on her book.
Your paper attacks the idea of a God who loves all people. There is precedent in Scriptures for the existence of those who are not children of God. However, let’s get the story straight about what jesus taught. He said, “Love even thy enemy.” he also taught us, “Love God with all of your being and above all else; and love thy neighbor as thyself.” Now, you might see it differently but loving neighbor and even enemy pretty much means we are to love everyone. That is what Jesus Christ taught and there are some very important reasons for this, which you might wish to contemplete.
Finally, I find it very fascinating when non-Catholics quote Scriptures from the Holy Bible and use them against Catholicism. In fact, it was Catholicism that produced the Holy Bible. Yes, it’s wonderful that non-Catholics prefer to use the Catholic Scriptures, i.e. The Holy Bible. The RC Church officially teaches that what is in their Scriptures is Truth. It is good that non-Catholics recognize this, also.
Christ be with you.
Jim Brechtel I like youre reasoning, but i am not agree of some of your statements ([What a surprise :-) ] One of them is this statement:
“Finally, I find it very fascinating when non-Catholics quote Scriptures from the Holy Bible and use them against Catholicism. In fact, it was Catholicism that produced the Holy Bible. Yes, it’s wonderful that non-Catholics prefer to use the Catholic Scriptures, i.e. The Holy Bible. The RC Church officially teaches that what is in their Scriptures is Truth. It is good that non-Catholics recognize this, also. ”
The bible is NOT the work of the Catholic church NOR is it the Catholic Scriptures. Most of the bible was written before Christ was born, before the early Christians , let alone there was a Roman Catholic church. Also the other books in the bible were not been written by the Catholic church and as I think Perry already correct mentioned the early books where correct and coherend, the latter and apocriphe(sic) books are not (why?)
It was GOD ALMIGHTY who produced His word, the bible and Jezus quoted a lot out of the hebrew scriptures and by doing so declared the scriptures as the word of God and the reference for us. So when somebody quotes out of the word of God to correct wrong teachings, he has the right. Even stronger it is our duty to folow Christ when He used the scripures to correct the leaders of that time, to prove that they made human laws, wrong explenations, wrong behaviour, wrong teaching and made the beautifull law of God forceless and to warn them she had to repend are else the kingdom would be taken away from them as group. (There were leaders that became folowers of Christ)
Will God do anything less to organisations or human beings in this time if they don’t do his will?
Dear Eduard,
I also wrote the same thing Jim said that RC produced the bible. Yes it’s true that most books were written before Jesus was born. But it was the RC that compiled and preserved them in their present form now.
Constantino
I am not defending modern day RC church. Yet, if we choose to be blind to even a single truth, we subject ourselves to the possibility of total blindness. Yes, we believe the Scriptures were inspired by God. However, that’s not what we’re talking about. Below is my understanding of the origins of the modern-day compilation of scriptures in “book” form, called the Holy Bible. If I am wrong, I will truly appreciate being corrected.
The book that Christians commonly refer to as the Holy Bible was produced by the RC church, i.e. the Catholic Church of Rome. When protestantism came about, the Holy Bible was edited again and a new version produced by discarding more books and further editing the ones that were left in. The oldest known copies of the Holy Bible include Codex Sinaiticus. To date, this ancient text most closely resembles the bible used by the RC church. I.e. if you want the most accurate modern-day bible, then you will want a Catholic version.
If not for the RC church, as it was in the early 4th century AD, we might have a very different set of “standard” scriptures in use by Christians. It was under Roman Emperor Constantine I (Constantine the Great), who converted to Christianity in 312 AD, that the attempt was made to end the debate over which scriptures would be used by the majority of Christians. Until that time, various Christian sects had numerous books they used as scriptures. Some sects, such as the Gnostics, etc, went their own way and still use different scriptures to this day. Not all scriptures were incorporated into the Holy Bible by the Church of Rome. There are many books which were left out or discarded. Does anyone believe that the included books were not edited?
Rather than trying to prove anything in this forum, which I’m not, I recommend research on the topic for yourselves.
Will somebody please explain the significance of the expression, Jesus died for our sins. I can’t get my brain around it. If God loves us why wouldn’t he forgive us without condition. Why sacrifice His sons life as a price for that forgiveness?
Martin,
He can’t just forgive us without condition because you can’t sweep away evil with an accounting trick.
Think back to watching a holocaust movie. The utterly cruel and barbaric things that were done to innocent people. The torture, etc.
God can’t just let the perpetrators off the hook.
Someone has to be punished.
It is absolutely vital that we take the reality of evil seriously. Evil is real, it exists, and we can’t wish it away. Evil must be punished. Jesus’ death on the cross satisfies the need for justice and yet allows us to receive mercy.
To that I would like to add that the injustices you referred to a few days ago, where a cruel dictator is ruining precious lives, is the prime example why God can’t just forgive. What that dictator has done is unspeakable, and in human terms unforgivable. The only chance of him being forgiven is that a price must be paid for the blood of his victims.
According to the law, as written in Leviticus, there is no remission of sin without shedding of blood. Read Leviticus. Jesus Christ freed us from that law by fulfilling it. This is why we say He died for us.
Believing in Him is the only condition for redemption of sin and salvation. We are then freed from the law by upholding it, as believers in Jesus Christ. As such, we must keep the ten commands by keeping the one command, given us by Jesus, having two parts that sum up the ten. Those who do not keep His commands do not truly believe in Jesus Christ. But those who believe in Him keep His commands.
All earthly religions are a hoax and a stumbling block to those who are truly seeking our Lord Jesus!
Hello Perry my friend in Jesus, I come in the Peace of our Lord Jesus, NOT the earthly kind.
Christianity is all “Spiritual” there is no need to look for our Lord Jesus anywhere else other than in ourselves and I will attempt to explain my postulation, as well as I can with the Lord Jesus’ help.
This is to explain a bit about why I send the book “Imitation of Christ” to other people. Let not Moses nor any of the prophets speak to us, but Thou “O” Lord speak to us and we WILL listen!
http://tinyurl.com/29wyxwv
And this is why I keep on trying to emphasize to people the importance of realizing that “Christianity” is not an earthly event, it’s a “Spiritual Event” that happens in the “Building Stone” ( namely our hearts.) of the Church that our Lord Jesus said was the Church He was building, and that the gates of hell would not prevail against. The following is a copy of the letter I posted on the internet for others to see and think on.
John 6:63 & 65 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The Words that I speak to you are Spirit, and they are Life. And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
See?
All Spiritual in Gods nature.
Thank You for this gift Lord Jesus!
I send out copies of the book; “Imitation of Christ” Book three, and asked if anyone had ever read it. I know it is steeped in Roman Catholicism but that’s due to the era it was written in, back circa the “Dark Ages” when the RCC dominated the worlds governments. However to me it gave a spiritual answer in those first two chapters on “Inward Consolation” that is found in book 3, that I had been muddling over for over 65 years now, and that was what “Shiloh” meant.
I asked for guidance from our Lord Jesus about what “Shiloh” meant and this is what He led me to wittiness. I will first quote some of the scripture that inspired me to look for the answer, then a brief synopsis of my SPIRITUAL connection with our savior, and in summery the answer Jesus led me to, to read about the meaning of Shiloh.
Psalm 85:8 I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for He will speak Peace unto His people, and to His saints: but let them NOT, turn again to folly.
1Samuel 3:9 Therefore Eli said to Samuel, “Go, lie down; and it shall be, if He calls you, that you must say, ‘Speak, LORD, for Your servant hears.'” So Samuel went and lay down in his place.
1Samuel 3:21 Then the LORD appeared again in Shiloh. For the LORD revealed Himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the Word of the LORD.
Psalm 4:4 Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.
Psalm 63:6 When I remember Thee upon my bed, and meditate on Thee in the night watches.
Psalm 119:125 I am Thy servant; give me understanding, that I may know Thy testimonies.
Exodus 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
John 6:68-69 Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the Words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that Thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
Amen! So do I brother Simon Peter and I pray I may add my Heart Stone to yours in the construction of His Spiritual Church, the gates of hell will not prevail against in “Shiloh“.
See below: Shiloh; to be quiet or at rest, with the distinct connotation of prospering. Jones’ Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names refers to the Samaritan Pentateuch, where this name is translated as Pacific, Pacificator or tranquility. Amen!
The above scripture leads me to what it is that I wanted to point out about how the Spirit works with me, I cannot speak for others, but this is about how the Lord Jesus Christ led me to see His Spiritual Kingdom, through Him and Him only. I will try to make this as brief as possible, however nothing is always as short as one wants it to be when it comes to having to write about ones personal history especially for me and mine because I don‘t write much, but I will try my best.
Once upon a time, when I was a young lad of 7, about to turn 8 years old, as it happened on that extremely clear and beautiful morning, between 9:00 and 10:00 AM of Saturday, May 11th. 1946, just 3 days before my birthday, a friend of mine Kay Kaiser, came to visit me and I asked my dad if I could have a wooden model boat he built from scratch of a cabin cruiser for a birthday present.
My dad acquiesced with a wry grin and my friend, and I went for a ride in my kayak taking the little model boat with us.
Dad had just got discharged out of the Army and bought a combination houseboatdock and a bunch of boats and motors for them, so he would be in the sports fishermen industry, catering to doctors and lawyers, engineers and the like, during salmon fishing and other year round fishing and hunting excursions etc. My friends dad, Buzz Kaiser, was the towns pilot who also owned the towns only airport and airplanes and had just come home from the war, and dad made a deal with him to give Kay free boat and motor use in turn for taking me up in his airplane for some joy riding. It turned out that Buzz actually taught me how to fly his plane, an old vintage 1938 bi-plane called a Steermen, as well. Oh well, that’s a whole other story, back to mine and the Lords.
It was really a one man kayak but us two fit in it like a glove. We started playing with the boat and it started drifting away and wouldn’t you know it, we both simultaneously reached for it and the whole boat flipped upside down in about 20 feet of water depth.
This lake in Lakeside Oregon, called 10 mile Lake, connected to the Ten Mile River which dumped into the Pacific ocean, was a pristine lake at the time. Man didn’t have time to mess it up yet, we even had an eagles nest that was 80 years old and still occupied by the offspring of it’s original builders sitting on the top of a huge Douglas fir that was almost as big as a giant Redwood tree sitting right on the lakes edge, and it had been topped by lightening long ago, and the eagles made their home there upon. Their nest must have been 20 feet in diameter, if it was an inch, it was so huge. They were some beautiful birds to watch work.
Anyway’s not to keep straying so far off topic here, I went straight to the bottom as I couldn’t swim a lick, but Kay could swim like a fish. At this point I might add that the day before all this happened, I had just got my head shaved for the summer months ahead, so I had very short hair. One couldn’t hardly grab any with their finger tips it was so short.
As I found myself sitting on the bottom of the lake, watching the trout and sun perch go by and the marine plant life on the sandy bottom, I suddenly realized I was about to die. To top that off, I had a dreadful fear of water, deep water, if you know what I mean, so my animal was all set to go berserk on me in just a wink of an eye, when I suddenly remembered what my grandmother said to me once not so very long ago about, how if I ever found myself in times of trouble, to “call out for the Lord Jesus to save you and He would. “
My grandmother, bless her heart was a beautiful loving person whom I never heard a sullied or harsh word from in my life. She dearly did love our Lord Jesus Christ. My mom and dad were burned out on religion and refused to even discuss it with me other than to say “We believe in something bigger than us, but just leave it there and there will be no misunderstandings.” So I never received much spiritual instruction from them.
However, back to the story of my drowning with a surprise ending again, there IS a point to all this jabbering I find myself doing here so please bear with me. ;o)
. So there I was and my thoughts of grandma came to me to yell out for Jesus to save me. So, that’s exactly what I did, to the top of my mind, ( Please save me Jesus! ) because I didn’t want to waste any air at this point. And lo and behold, as soon as I did, a bright Light started to appear and I was filled with absolute terror, a terror that is even greater than that of death, and suddenly I was asked what wrong I had done in my life, and all I could do was remember about a year ago that I took a cookie from the cookie jar without asking. See? All Spiritual, but I knew Whom was before me doing all of this for me at the bottom of that lake, believe you me I did, and there has never ever been any doubt in my mind about it either. Despite my mom and dad and other‘s trying to explain it all away saying; “Everyone who drowns sees his life before him, everyone knows this Darrell, so it was just all in your mind from fear that‘s all, get over it“
Anyway, then this shadow or more better, a silhouette, of a man with long hair and a beard dressed in a flowing robe, flashed past me coming from my right side and swiftly moving toward my left, at that same instant, the Word, “SHILOH” came to me and through me and all fear fled from me.
( Remember, no one at this point in my life, had ever told me what Jesus looked like, nor, had I even seen a picture that supposedly represented His countenance. )
He ( Jesus ) said to me, “Do you see the top of the water?” I said yes. He said, “just push off of the bottom and go up to the surface and get a breath of air, then come back down and do the whole thing over again until someone comes for you.” I said OK and did just that. Next thing I knew I hit the surface let out the old air and took in the new and was prepared to go down again when Kay grabs hold of my hair between two fingers and pulls me over to the upside down Kayak where we both hung on until mom and dad came for us in another boat from the dock.
In summery; See? All Spiritual, it was all about a virgin boy being called by our heavenly Father to be baptized in Living Water by Himself in whole submersion and a confession of my sins and a new outlook on life that would forever after drive me to find out what this was all about, and all this done by His own design, no other human being or religious institution was involved.
Right after the almost drowning incident, the Lord led me on foot, from my house to some place out in the forest. There I found “THEE” most beautiful meadow of the first kind, surrounded by a virgin old growth of conifers, with a brook passing through the middle of all this beauty that surpassed anything I had ever seen, nor to date have I ever seen a sight as beautiful as that was. The stream itself was about four or five feet deep, clear and running moderately and I could see trout sculling the water against it’s current. I just laid back gazed into the blue cloudless sky and watched it all in wonder that I could walk from my house to heaven, and even had the option to walk back if I wanted to. Then the Lord came to me again, and let me see my whole future, afterwards He took the memory of what He told me away, but He let me remember He did tell me. Kind of hard to explain, but that’s about the best I can do. Anyway, after He stopped talking to me I said; “And just think, I don’t even have one single pain or broken bone in my body.” That even kind of shocked me when I said it, why would an 8 year old kid say something like that?
That’s not the complete end, because 30 years later on down the road of life He came to me when I was about to go berserk again and this time, ( The middle age crisis syndrome.) He actually drove me home. But that is another story. Then 15 years later after that event He came to me again, but that too is yet another story.
That’s why I am so insistent on saying to people, “Christianity” is all spiritual.
Nothing earthly about it.
Ok so now to get to the meaning of Shiloh that our Lord Jesus led to me to read, I will share it with you…
The name Shiloh is applied twice in the Bible, once as a Messianic title Genesis 49:10, ( spelled with Hebrew characters I cannot reproduce on my computer.) and once, as a much mentioned town in Ephraim (Joshua 18:1, spelled the three different ways again I cannot show).
The town of Shiloh is most famous for being the first seat of government of the invading Israelite forces. At Shiloh the tent of meeting was set up (Joshua 18:1), the land was divided (18:10), and judges sat, up to Eli and Samuel (1 Samuel 1:9). Since, the Messianic title, is so important, meanings are at once disputed. BDB Theological Dictionary leans towards a reading that Jones’ Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names resolutely rejects, namely compound of the short form of meaning who or whose, and (lu 1085), a particle that denotes potentiality, usually supplicatory, such as: if only, would it be that, may it be – in translations this word is often represented by ‘Oh! May it be that…’ More streamlined translations would probably choose something like ‘Oh, I wish that…’
Still, it should be noted that even though English doesn’t have a word that expresses supplicatory potential, Hebrew does. In English it’s hard to turn the phrase into a name (Omayitbe or Goshiwishthat?) but in Hebrew it isn’t. In fact, the name of the first king of Israel, Saul, means something along the same line: Wished For.
The Messiah of Israel was by no means just for Israel. Genesis 17:5 and 18:18 make it very clear: in Abraham – or more precise: through the covenant that God made with Abraham, the covenant of which Jesus Christ was the fulfillment – all the nations of the earth would be blessed (see also Eph 3:15 and Rev 21:24). Perhaps the prophet Haggai, who wrote just after the return, tapped into Genesis 49:10 when he wrote, “…and I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations will come…” (2:7).
The Messianic name Shiloh is then, with quite a substantial bit of poetic lenience, said to mean He Whose It Is. The main literary defensive argument for this view comes from Ezekiel 21:27, where the prophet speaks of Him who shall come and whose right it is to own everything. In this statement the section between “until the coming of…” and “…is the right, and I will give it” is spelled , which looks a lot like the expanded version of our name. Add to that the detail that both Genesis 40:10 and Ezekiel 21:27 deal with Judah and the government or ownership of that tribe, and the argument becomes quite compelling.
Jones’ Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names notes that Ezekiel’s style is rather modern, Biblically spoken, and unlike material found in the Pentateuch. But that argument may be annulled by the Pentateuch’s late edition theory, which suggests that Genesis, though originally very old, was edited to its present form around the time of Ezekiel. Either way, we may be quite certain that Ezekiel, a priest who experienced Nebuchadnezzar’s siege of Jerusalem, was well aware of the prophesy of Genesis 49:10. And from an author of that caliber we may expect confident references in stead of accidental similarities.
Isaiah, also not a marginal poet, wrote more than a hundred years prior to Ezekiel (although critics bothered with the name of Cyrus in chapters 44 and 45 place him, or at least these references, after the return from the exile). Isaiah seems to refer to the larger compass of Genesis 49:10 in his famous Messianic prophesy, when he says, “For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders…” (9:6)
After this reference to government, Isaiah lavishes the Messiah with a series of honorary titles: Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, and Prince of Peace, which brings us to the interpretation of the name Shiloh that Jones’ Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names and some others favor and BDB Theological Dictionary not even considers: a derivation of the verb (shala 2392), to be quiet or at rest, with the distinct connotation of prospering. Jones’ Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names refers to the Samaritan Pentateuch, where this name is translated as Pacific, Pacificator or tranquility.
BDB Theological Dictionary and Jones’ Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names agree, however, that the name of Shiloh the town indeed is derived of (shala 2392). As such is may be translated as Tranquility Town (or Fair Haven or Pleasantville).
Linguistically, the name Shiloh is closely related to the name Shelah (II). The idea behind the name calls to mind the shalom-stock that counts Solomon, Absalom and Jerusalem, as well as the name Noah.
God bless you in everything you endeavor my friends in Christ Jesus, I remain your humble friend and brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,
Perry,
Thats why I said God should intervene in circumstances such as the evil tyrant but you seemed not to agree. I remember the philosopher Antony Flew said it was the holocaust and the rise of Nazi Germany that convinced him there was no God. If we talk about evil generally it doesn’t strike home but if we analyse a particular evil like Pol Pot or Hitler the horror strikes home. I can’t believe that a God would allow Pol Pot to live out his life in luxury after the atrocities he commited
I accept what you’re saying. So what would you like God to do?
I would have thought most readers are very eager for Richard Reddy to give further details of his meeting with Jesus. But nobody has requested further information. A man declared he had a meeting with Jesus and it’s accepted as an everyday thing. Why doesn’t anybody query it, or does everybody think he is just another nut making a ridiculous claim?
I’ll be brief because I’m preparing to go to church for the Christmas day. By the way: Merry Christmas! May God heal your spiritual eyes to see during this season.
I just wanna say: God allows it so, his people (Christian) won’t have any other hope source than God, and look at the real kingdom of heaven where peace and joy reign. and for those who don’t believe yet will understand that this earth is not a place to be loved, because human beings are bad, and will look for a better place that God prepared for those that love him.
Jesus’ birth is celebrated during the Christmas season, and it reminds us also that Jesus will be back, and he’d love that you believe him when he is back. Don’t worry, you’ll be one of the happiest at that day ’cause all those punishments you are talking about will be done at that day.
Perry, I just wanted to let you know I’ve found your sincerity and honesty to be inspirational. What you call the “7 lies” would be pretty clear to most who would take a real look at how churches work and the vested interests of church “leaders” who prefer we not ask too many questions. Even so, I believe there are many sincere believers in most faiths who are able to connect to a deeper reality (in spite of corruption at higher levels) and may even find ritual useful.
The one thing I don’t get is when people (this appears to include coffeehousetheology and Anne Rice) say they are talking about “religion,” but they’re only talking about Christianity. By the way, a widely-revered Hindu saint, Paramahansa Yogananda (who believed in the divinity of Jesus) once referred to Christianity as “churchianity”–I think from a point of view similar to yours, that churches provide a certain kind of “practice” but they’re often not very related to the real Christ.
Eastern mystics generally recognize Jesus, but they feel that Krishna, Buddha, and many others have also been divine manifestations. This seems pretty reasonable, as the planet has a very long history, most of it preceding Jesus’ time on Earth, and many cultures have had very little opportunity to know Jesus, or have actually had Christianity introduced by imperialistic invaders.
Just some thoughts.
Cheers,
Paul Buhr
It’s likely that even satan believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ. Otherwise, would there be power in Jesus’ name? Therefore, that a hindu believed in Jesus’ divinity does not mean that person is for Christ, who is the only way to the Father. A major problem with eastern religions is the belief that good and evil can be balanced. I.e. the yin/yang, I-Ching, kundalini meditations, etc.
Jesus Christ said that a tree is good and its fruit is good or else the tree is evil and its fruit is rotten; but it cannot be both. In other words, good and evil, as taught by eastern religions, cannot be balanced. What then does Jesus’ teaching imply about eastern religions?
Perry,
Perhaps I should ask you what God should do about evil men. There are mortal men, not Gods or superhumans, who are alive today after commiting unspeakable evil and God does nothing. Good human beings are labouring to bring them to justice but are meeting intense opposition one way or another. Why is that? It would save millions of dollars and a lot of frustration if God dealt the final blow. It’s true the recent trial of ‘Dutch’ the Cambodian prison master who tortured and killed thousands of people in his prison, was justice. The witness’ statements were harrowing indeed and it brought the whole grizzly afair to the attention of the world who by this time had forgotten. That’s what these sub-humans are hoping for, that time will cause the world to forget. If I pray at all I pray that the international prosecutors are successful. The defendants know who they are and are hopefully quaking in their shoes. It doesn’t matter that they are old men now. As you intimated in an earlier post, these terrible crimes should not go unpunished. It would be poetic justice indeed if the last of this bunch get the justice they deserve. It’s just a pitty that the International Court of Justice can no longer impose the death penalty as it could after the second world war. The sentence would be the rest of their lives in a modern luxury correction centre.
Martin,
I hear you. But I simply ask – what would you like God to do with them? Write up a scenario. Let’s talk about it.
Perry, I suppose this can be answered easily by believers. They would say that it is not for us to punish the wicked, God will punish them in due course. But this is of little comfort to non-believers. If we punish them then we are sure they get their just deserts and that justice has been seen to be done. If God exists he patently doesn’t want us to discover him. So if he intervened it would be in a way that maintained his secretiveness. So if these evil men died of a heart attack of God’s doing, to us it would appear to be a natural death. We wouldn’t suspect it was by the hand of God. If every evil man suddenly died with a heart attack one would suspect it was God’s doing. That would suit me fine.
Right now I’m reading “The Aquariums of Pyongyang,” a fascinating if dreary autobiography of a guy who spent 1977-1987 in a North Korean concentration camp. He was 12 when he got there and 22 when he left. He spent his adolescence eating rats and burying the corpses of his fellow prisoners. Witnessed a few gallows hangings and was saturated by communist propaganda.
Was sent there because his family, though highly supportive of the communist regime, wasn’t quite supportive enough and had suspicious connections to the Japanese.
I may understand how you feel about tyrants and dictators.
By the way, did you know that the same concentration camp he was in is still running today?
Do you know that right now, at this very moment, there is probably a crew of skinny inmates in some North Korean prison camp who are digging a grave somewhere in 10 degrees below zero weather?
And North Korea is not the only country with places like this.
I may understand how you feel about tyrants and dictators.
Q: Who should God give a heart attack to?
Dear fellows,
I am not trying to gather others toward my truth, but most sentences and statements within Bible are poetic expressions of its writer. Understanding poetic meaning is not like a normal daily conversations. I take example of the world creation in the Genesis 1:3-5, it just simply says God has created the world within 7 days; day 1, separation of day and night. That’s it. So simple as if it is just happen in a flick of eyes. The matter of fact, according to our “time” and by scientific process that we all admit, this world is not exist in overnight time. It’s a millions of years time.
So Bible is not a scientific book but it supports scientific evidences. So we can’t take what Bible says literally. Many things else in the Bible does not seem as what it is written.
In this case Bible apparently is not “literally” the word of God but most likely is the poetic expression of its writers.
There come a problem with all mankind to understand these poetic expressions, no wonder nowadays so many sects of religions and every sects claim themselves are the genuine and the truth. So now we all trapped with all these beliefs.
Benny,
If you are saying we should not focus on the letter of the Word but, instead, allow ourselves to hear the Spirit of the Word, then I agree with you. But the scriptures of the Holy Bible are not just poetic expressions of men.
Hi Benny
Nice comments, thanks.
John Donovan, Romans 14:4 is part of a larger context, regarding judgement of others. I have not judged but only stated what I believe to be truth. It’s for God to judge.
You quoted Apostle Paul. So shall I: “1 Cor. 10:20- But the things which the heathens sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God. And I would not that you should be made partakers with devils.”
No-one should ever use violence in the name of religion and I believe this to be a peaceful forum. What I said about non-Christian religions is based on both scriptures and experience. I do not say this lightly. Not even.
I have no anger and do not cry fool but love my brothers and sisters of other religions and pray for them. Yet, Truth is Truth. It’s not my truth but God’s. How do we state truths, which are inconvenient to others? Even Jesus did not sugar-coat His messages. He made things pretty clear and did not mince words. There is no way to make inconvenient truths look like “carrots.” Wouldn’t that be a form of deception?
If you are Christian, then you will agree that there is no way to the Father, in Heaven, other than by Jesus Christ. I believe Jesus strongly agrees with this. Am I wrong?
Peace of Christ.
Jim,,
Paul was also rebuked by G@dd for his pride. I think you may see some of it in that quote. Devils? Really? Perhaps he was engaging in what psychologists call transference/projection: Seeing your own fault in others but not in yourself.
I do believe there is no optimal way to The Creator/G@d other than through Jesus Christ. Yet G@d is everywhere, under every rock, inside every tree. It’s all about “connection to The Source”. Ironic that this term is from a non-theist (Dr. Wayne Dyer). Nonetheless, I believe it’s true. There are a lot of ways to connect the G@d, The Source of all, but to receive the promises of Christ, you have to connect through Christ. It seems obvious that how you connect to The Source determines what kind of grace you receive.
I also believe that non-Christians and even non-theists connect to “The Source” all the time. It’s obvious that G@d manifests in and through them, in their lives, and in the lives of the people they touch. G@d is more than a personality, even more than a noun. Hashem is a also a verb, easily transcending the popular and limited understanding of reality or Being to being communication.
So it’s not about connecting to G@d as much as it’s what that connection consists of. Again, if you want to enjoy the full promises of Christ it seems natural that you would have to connect through Christ.
IMHO, the graces Jesus described being available from “The Father” are quite radically optimal when compared most other religions. From what I know, notions such as raising the dead, perpetual healing or the manifestation of material things, etc are not widely promised by most religions…(sadly, not even some popular forms of Christianity, not to digress).
This is what I call “the carrot”. what I believe are the promises of Christ.
If you want to gather folks into the fold or simply steer them towards The Greater Truth, it’s not enough anymore (even if you’re correct) to use a stick. Folks will naturally do what works best for them. Fear is not such a popular motivator or deterrent anymore.
John,
Agreed. Fear is not an appropriate motivator, since fear is from the enemy. I am not a proponent of fear and we should not be afraid of the enemy. If God is for us then who can be against us? The point is that the enemy does exist and there are appropriate times to mention the enemy, since we are at war with it – even if we don’t want to admit it. Ultimately, I think you have misjudged me. I prefer the positive message of Jesus Christ.
You have repeatedly mentioned “connecting with God” or “the source”. It’s important to know that we cannot connect with God on our own. We cannot approach God. It is God who approaches us. We make ourselves open to receive Him. This is important because of the very topic that started this thread. These things I know about from experience, from helping people who have gotten themselves into trouble with eastern religions to the point of being severely tormented. These are the people we might ask to find out if they believe there is reason to be afraid…
Some new- and old-age religions and philosophies, such as taoism and those related to taoism teach that it is we who connect to god. There is a critical difference between what they teach and what is taught by Christianity; And this difference is critical because it is a way to know if the “source” you are “connecting” with is actually God. I have known people who practiced qigong or kundalini and thought they were connecting with God but became tormented by, yes, a demon, and a very nasty one at that. Toaism, for instance, teaches a person how to meditate, open chakras, drawing in energy from the Earth’s core and the universe, etc. This is deception. Kundalini meditation is deception, just as it’s deception to say that we can balance good and evil. A tree is good or it is evil but cannot be both. A true connection with God is very different.
As Jesus taught, the Kingdom is within. It is within that we find God, not somewhere out there in the universe nor at the core of the Earth. And when we have connected with God, it is because He has approached us. Think about this carefully. It is written that humans are defiled just by being in the flesh. Therefore, while God can and does connect with us, it’s impossible for us to “connect” with a perfect being, like God, without His permission nor without Him doing the connecting. If anyone does a meditation and “connects” with a spirit be very careful. The enemy is very real and can appear as an angel of God. Such a connection is not likely to be with God. I say this not to cause fear but to provide guidance for the unwary.
Here is something positive for those who truly want to be connected with God because this is a very real and powerful spiritual experience: A good way to become “connected” with God is via contemplative prayer. This type of prayer is similar to meditation, except that we go within. There is no connecting with light or energies from the universe. You will find God and His Kingdom within. Become empty of self and open to the *real* Truth. Be uncompromising with regard to the Truth and He will find you.
Jim,
I have to check you on your last comment. You claim that “we cannot connect with God on our own. We cannot approach God. It is God who approaches us.”
I find this to be a very troubling statement. Perhaps I do not understand the context but more importantly I have to disagree completely with the narrow limitation it places on prayer or connecting with G@d. It’s almost as if a somewhat traditional (and limited) understanding of G@d as a male personality has defined how you connect with It. You are only allowed to wait for communion rather initiate it? This I find to be incongruous on several levels.
Even deciding to pray is a willful act. Deciding to love is a willful act. Deciding to be charitable or compassionate is a willful act. And definitely, deciding to forgive or be patient are willful acts. These willful acts are living prayers. A willful act is not “waiting for communion” it is doing a thing that then “connects” you with G@d.
You recommend that people looking for connection should practice contemplative prayer. Yet, simply choosing to “go within” and be “empty” starts with a willful act. You are thus reaching out and willfully manipulating your consciousness. Not to get distracted by the concept of “empty”, but how is this any different than any other meditaion technique that manipulates conciousness?
Jesus came here to set us free from many things. Maybe the most important shackle He freed us from is the notion that G@D is an “unapproachable mountain”. (Hebrews 12:18-29). To declare that “We cannot approach God” is both troublesome and false.
Check out http://www.coffeehousetheology.com/god-unapproachable-guilt/
The Taoist technologies for state-of-consciousness manipulation are just that; technologies. Technology is neither good nor bad. Like contemplative prayer, it’s just another technique, a means to an end. For one person, a beatific vision is becoming one with the universe, for another it’s connecting with a higher self, for another it’s communing with G@d. Fact is, we are saddled with human minds; somewhat limited in their understanding and range of experience.
Scientific studies have mapped brain chemistry patterns of these “mystical” experiences. How folks get there is one thing, what they do with the experience is another. It’s like the parable of seed that falls on fertile vs barren ground. These mystical experiences, once considered miracles reserved for only for saints, are being defined on a more scientific, hence accessible level. Miracles are normalizing…Yay!
Being able to connect to G@d, passively or actively, is a good thing. But it’s always more than “waiting in the dark” and having your experience. It’s what you do with that experience (willfully) that really matters.
That’s really what defines a technique as “good or bad”… or as I prefer to say “ripe or unripe”.
Yes, John. You have misinterpreted what I have said with regard to approaching God. Thank you for asking.
Before we go further, it’s important to note that, personally, I prefer to dwell on the positive side of things. So, I’d like to try and close out this topic.
Notwithstanding biblical references, it’s important to note that what I say, here, does not come from a book nor from stories nor is it based on opinion. What I say is based on actual *experience* in helping people who have gotten themselves into trouble with demonic torment by practicing eastern religious meditations, such as kundalini. If you don’t believe demons exist then you won’t believe what I say, here. But I would ask those who don’t believe demons exist why Jesus taught His disciples to cast them out? Certainly, Jesus believed they existed 2000 years ago.
God does not want us to be afraid of Him. Nor should we avoid Him out of guilt. Without Him, we would be lost and without hope. What I have said about approaching God has to do with unity with God, i.e. spiritually “connecting” with God. This is somewhat seperate from the concept of a God, who is approachable as our loving Father. It’s a different topic and a warning for those who naively think it’s safe to practice eastern meditations to go out and “connect” with another spirit. This is very dangerous business.
I stand by what I said about eastern religions and their spiritual practices, especially meditations such as kundalini, chong-mo, etc. It’s impossible to balance good and evil as they teach. As Jesus taught, a tree is good or it is evil but cannot be both. If one is intent on achieving a “mystical” experience, the likelihood is relatively high that they will do so. However, just know that the enemy is extremely devious and is very eager to please – for a while. Again from experience, it’s usually when people realize they’ve been duped and try to get out that things get ugly. This is why such activity as mediumism is warned against in scriptures.
The only one true God is our loving Father. In Him, and only in Him, can we trust. In Him we find rest.
Jim,
It’s interesting that you claim to “prefer to dwell on the positive side of things” yet most if not all of the claims you make to support your thesis, that eastern based meditation (and apparently healing) techniques are inherently “evil”, are very negative assertions: “trouble with demonic torment”, “dangerous business”, “the enemy is extremely devious”, etc.
Again, this implies an affinity for the stick rather than the carrot. (See my earlier posts) You might want to soften your approach even more.
You also mention “biblical references” and warnings “in scriptures” regarding “eastern religious meditations”, “mediumship’ and “chong-mo”. First, I’d like to know what biblical references and scripture you are referring to. Second, I’d like to know your reasoning behind inserting mediumship into the discussion. Third, I’d like to know what you mean by “chong-mo”. From what I could find on the Internet, it’s a type of acupuncture therapy. Are you condemning acupuncture as “dangerous”?
Lastly, I’d like to refer you to a book, “Prayer of the Cosmos”, by Neil Douglas-Klotz (www.abwoon.com). It includes a more exact translation of the Lord’s Prayer or The Our Father from Aramaic, the language Jesus actually spoke. Jesus did not speak the King’s English.
The first word of of the prayer “Abwoon” does not specifically translate into “Our Father”. It’s a derivative from “Ab”, referring to “all germination proceeding from the source of Unity”.
While I think there are good reasons Jesus guided us to think of G@d’s male aspect, he also (and perhaps more importantly) guided us to think of G@d as more than a male. Modern interpretations of “Abwoon” are more along the lines of Divine Parent or “Source”. Even Jewish tradition refers to a female aspect of The Divinity: Shekhinah. Further, Jesus guided us to think of G@d as more than a noun. “God is Love”, (John 4:16) transcends any notion of personality, much less gender.
John,
Regarding: ” this implies an affinity for the stick rather than the carrot”
Wrong. Although there are times when a stick is the most appropriate, such as Jesus overturning the money changer’s tables at the temple, that’s not my intent. I’m simply passing on information. You can do with it what you like. Everyone has a choice: To turn to God in all things, or to not. What I have stated comes from real experience. Demons do exist and they are dangerous for the unwary who think it’s cool to play with things they don’t understand. If you have a child who plays with fire, wouldn’t you tell them the dangers? They could be burned, perhaps even die. A parent who doesn’t love the child might let them play with fire and say nothing. This is no different, except your soul is at stake.
Mediumism is very much related to the idea of “connecting” with spirits, even those who try to “connect with the source.” They might actually connect with something but might not like what they connect with. This is why we cannot approach God *to connect* but make ourselves available and He will approach us. Many will not understand this statement and I apologize. We might never be able to fully explain in this type of forum.
The term “chong-mo” is from chi gung, or qigong. It is similar to the kundalini meditation and is based on it. Kundalini is Hindu. Chong-mo is taoist. This meditation was designed as a “safer” method of meditating, since it has been found that improper kundalini meditations have resulted in demonic posessions. However, it’s just as dangerous. Yes, the eastern religions do acknowledge the demonic but they attempt to balance good and evil, which is impossible. This meditation has nothing to do with acupuncture. I have no experience with acupuncture and have no reason to do so. There is absolutely no need for acupunture needles. I heal by the power of the Holy Spirit.
I have nothing to prove but have provided information that I hope will help others avoid costly mistakes. When we avoid things we know to be “evil”, it’s much easier to focus on the brighter side, don’t you think? Regardless, you can listen or not. It’s your choice. No-one is holding a stick over you. As for me, I am a servant, not a master.
On the brighter side, I have seen and experienced many things which are cause for joy. But why talk about them in this context?
Oh, you asked about scripture references. I rarely quote book, chapter, or verse. You might notice that neither did Jesus. A listener who knows scriptures has no need for this. Instead, Jesus would simply say, “It is written…”, or “Have you not read the Scriptures? …”, etc. So, I follow His example. In this way, we are led to study the scriptures for ourselves and to understand the “Spirit” of the Word, rather than focusing on the letter of it.
Jim,
I’m really having trouble with you claims, representation and logic. In the hope of enlightenment through ratiocination, I’ll try one more time but then I’ll have to shake your dust from my sandals.
Here’s what I’m having trouble with:
First, you persist in ignoring my caution to use a carrot instead of a stick. Instead of trying to instill the “fear of devils” in to folks like so many fire and brimstone preachers have done for so long, I’m suggesting you focus on the benefits and promises of grace made by Jesus. Again, folks (especially young folks) are more sophisticated these days and tired of the stick. As you know, so many various “spiritual experiences” are within reach that it makes scary stories of “demons” and “evil spirits” seem like the tired bleating of their lost and unenlightened parents. If you really want to keep people from getting stuck in a negative vibe, don’t alienate them with stories about monsters under their bed. They’ll just laugh at you.
The only real monster I typically see is ignorance. G@d is the source of all wisdom and sanctuary. Focus on that and fear nothing.
Second, you write, “Mediumism is very much related to the idea of “connecting” with spirits, even those who try to “connect with the source.””. This statement seems to imply that anyone who does not pray, meditate or commune with Spirit according to your proscribed method cannot connect to The Source or G@d. This sounds much like what was called Quietism in the 17th century. You state “This is why we cannot approach God *to connect*”. Again please read my previous posts, Bible citations and the aforementioned coffeehouse link to see why this notion is so misleading.
Here are some facts:
The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola (1491–1556), the founder of the Jesuits, contain numerous meditative exercises. The process begins with a consideration of the purpose of one’s life and the relationship with the rest of creation. It is followed by a week of meditation about sin and its consequences. Next comes a period of meditating on the events of the life of Jesus, and another for thinking about his suffering and death. The final week is to experience the joy of the resurrection, and in conclusion to reflect on G@d’s love and the response of love for G@d The exercises often involve imagery in which one enters a biblical scene.
Not exactly being empty and waiting in the dark, or as you state, “we cannot approach God *to connect*”.
Rather than debating the definition of healthy meditation techniques or the true definition of contemplative prayer, I would encourage you to explore other “approved” meditation techniques such as “discursive meditation” (which uses the thinking mind to explore symbols and visionary experiences) or “affective prayer/meditation” (an operation of the will). Even Hesychasm is a good example of mediation where the goal is to experience G@d as Light.
Again this is incongruous with your statement, “no connecting with light or energies from the universe.”
Thirdly, you state that Chong-mo “has nothing to do with acupuncture.” This is false. Any Internet search will reveal that chong-mo is an energy channel for Qi. According to ancient Chinese healing science, Qi or Chi runs through meridians (energy channels) that can be manipulated by touch or needles. This healing science is also called acupuncture. It has worked for thousands of years in China and is so effective that even some health insurance plans will pay for it. Not exactly what most people today consider “dangerous” or “demonic”.
It’s troubling that your good intentions seem to be thwarted by conceptual tactics that alienate most people. This issue was the purpose of my original post. Scary stories, half truths and faulty reasoning will not enable your noble purpose; to be “a servant” of the Truth.
G@d bless.
John,
How is it that you have gone from not knowing what “chong-mo” is to being an expert on it? Acupunctureists might use the term but it’s a Chinese word and I’m not surprised. You speak of ignorance. If you want to not be ignorant then you might try listening to people who have real experience. However, you obviously are not interested in what I’m telling you. So, there is no point in continuing this thread.
And, please, stop being embarrased of spelling “God” correctly.
John,
You are not even trying to understand what I have written. I stand by what I’ve said. You cannot approach God to connect with Him. That’s laughable! He’s a perfect spirit and you are corrupted by being in the flesh. Go read Scriptures.
Regarding what is meant by “emptying oneself.” This is a problem with modern societies where people seem to have no time for God. We are so full of ourselves that there is no room for God, either. The meditations you mention do not conflict with this but align with it.
You put down what I say about experience as if I’m not telling the truth and accuse me of ignorance. At this I just have to shake my head and walk away. I tell you this – you have no idea!
I really don’t wish to continue this discussion. However, I just thought of a book you might be interested in. It’s called, “23 Minutes in Hell”, by Bill Wiese. I was given a copy of it about a year ago by a guy who said that when he started reading it, he couldn’t put it down. Really? He *liked* reading about scary monsters, devils, and hell? I admit that I started reading it but didn’t get very far. Frankly, it scared the *hell* out of me. Why did it scare me? Because it provides some validation of things I already knew. But that’s not why I think you’d be interested in this book.
You might be interested to know that this book made the New York Times best seller list. Now, this book goes *way* beyond anything I’ve said about this topic. Way way *way* beyond. But what’s interesting in the context of this discussion is that it’s a highly popular book. Otherwise it would not be on the NYT best seller list. I guess warning people about “scary monsters” is not that much of a turn-off after all.
So, the point is that you might not appreciate danger warnings but others apparently do.
In Christ.
” a tree is good or it is evil but cannot be both.”
Anything is good or bad according to what it is used for.
One tree may bear tasty and edible fruit, another may bloom bright fragrant flowers, but may have poisonous fruits, another may be good for making timber, and still another may be good for burning in an oven. One tree may not have all the properties. That does not mean any of them are inherently bad.
Tony,
What you say about a tree being tasty, etc, has nothing to do with what Jesus said, “A tree is good and its fruit is good or a tree is evil and its fruit is rotten but cannot be both.” Spiritually, this is absolutely the truth. You need to read the scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to open your eyes if you want to understand what this means.
The Holy Spirit opened one of my eyes a little bit, and what I understood from what I saw was that everything God had created (including serpents and snakes and alligators and other sex and all types of venomous insects and worms and bacteria and viruses and plants and trees and fierce wild animals) are good when they are at the right place at the right time. I did not notice Satan (Devil) in the big crowd.
So I believe that Satan does not exist – since he was not (and could not be)created by God; and that he is merely a big LIE, who is the father of all lies which God uses to mould His new creation. When finally creation is complete, the mould will be broken, and cast into eternal destruction, and everybody that survives will realise that everything that exists is good and that all bad things were lies, which will cease to exist when the truth will finally be exposed.
So I don’t think the Holy Spirit will open any of our eyes completely till the process of creation is complete (which I believe will happen only at the end of the world).
John, Just a question: Why do you write God as “G@d”?
Respect.
Does people who respect you address you as J@hn D@n@van?
http://judaism.about.com/od/judaismbasics/a/Why-Do-Some-Jews-Spell-God-G-D.htm
I’m not a Jew, but I love The Creator and like to show Him a little extra respect now and then.
Jim,
you said the folowing: We cannot approach God. It is God who approaches us.
I think this is incorrect.
God invites us to come to him, the first action however has to come from us.
exemples:
Isaiah 44:22 I will wipe out your transgressions just as with a cloud, and your sins just as with a cloud mass. Do return to me, for I will repurchase you.
James 4:8 Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you indecisive ones.
It is in the same way that Jesus invited the whole humankind ‘Come be my follower’
Mark 10:21 Jesus looked upon him and felt love for him and said to him: “One thing is missing about you: Go, sell what things you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven, and come be my follower.”
The invitation comes from Jezus Christ but it is to every individual to act on it in the right way – Be a real follower of Christ – to receive the promises
Eduard,
You have misinterpreted what I wrote. Please, re-read my posts. There are two seperate topics.
Jim you are right. You were talking about an other kind of connection, bond. What I said was right, but not to the case. Kind regards.
Ps I will do it here because I don’t know how to reach everybody; I have promesed to respond to certain issues as for exemple the bones of Peter in rome. I am busy with that but I have lot of work and my computer freaks out then and a while. So it is comming but I don’t know when it will be ready. Jah’s blessing to you all
Benny wrote, “Dear Jim Brechtel, God does not speak literally.” I can tell you from personal experience that he does speak and he has spoken to me when I was alone in my house.
Perhaps you think I am crazy? Perhaps you think I am deluded or perhaps lying to make myself appear special or superior in some way?
Regardless, he speaks. Man cannot live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Father.
Hi dear Rob
please dear friend watch the worlds incidents reality, I believe the universe power and it acts so carefully but with some unknown rules and there is nothing except them. there are a lot of tyrant and cruel people dying naturally, why? religion is a idea just for kidding and deceiving people to help dictators justify their action in the worlds.
thanks
arta,
While it’s true that politicians often use religion to manipulate people, that doesn’t prove that all religions are bad. Religions can also mollify politicians.
Benny, Believe me, I understand what you are saying. You are still searching for Truth, even if you don’t realize this, now. Keep searching and persevere. Those who sincerely seek the Truth will be given it.
Rob, I believe what you say and would like to hear about your experience. With humility, I tell you that my wife and I also experience God speaking to us. There are many who say, “God said …” or “The Lord spoke to me and said …” I tell you there is a very big difference between hearing a thought from one’s subconscious and actually hearing God “speak” with a voice. This is not to minimize what others say but only to point out there is a big difference. I’ve discovered on many occasions even pastors will say “The Lord spoke to me …” when it was just themselves talking to self. This is not always the case, however.
Anyway, God does speak to His children. He does so, now, just as He did to the prophets and the apostles, who wrote the scriptures of the Holy Bible. If you do hear a voice, be certain that you test the spirit, as written in the Gospel of John. If the one who speaks is God or was sent by Him, such as an angel, then they cannot/will not contradict the spirit of the written Word.
I pray you all understand it is not without great trial, perseverance, and effort that I’m able to say these things.
Dear Jim,
Some base their beliefs on their own personal experiences, or the experiences of their parents, teachers and friends. They may point out that are charlatans who have deceived many and bilked thousands from the poor trusting people. These people are very logical and often quite intelligent. However, they often jump to the erroneous conclusion that because it is not happening their own experience then it is not happening at all anywhere.
Jim, I don’t feel that you can argue anyone into the Kingdom of God. These people must be born again before they can see the Kingdom of God. They just don’t have eyes to see. I was there once. It’s better to just pray for those that can’t see and move on.
Rob, I very much agree with what you say. People can only be shown the way. Jesus said we are not to keep His gifts to ourselves; i.e. do not put the lamp you are given under a basket but share the light. Yet, it’s up to each to make their own choice.
When I first started “hearing” the Lord speak and even seeing the Lord and angels appear. It was both frightening and exciting at the same time. At first my wife didn’t believe me. Then she started hearing the Lord speak, also. We’ve spent years in prayer and discernment in order to know for certain that it is truly God who speaks. We’ve gone through many trials of discernment and persecution from friends, family, and church. We naively thought that we could approach clergy, friends, and family with our experiences and somehow receive guidance and support, while sharing what we believed to be something extrordinarily wonderful. Instead, we have found that very few truly want to hear about anothers’ experiences concerning spiritual matters. We’ve found that especially clergy are afraid of people like ourselves. The persecution has been intense. This leaves us feeling very alone. A few hundred years ago, we might have been burned at the stake, as were many at the time who “heard” God speak.
I’ve mentioned our spiritual experiences within this forum several times, yet no-one has questioned me about them. I think it’s because no-one believes what I say. I can’t blame others for not believing. As Rob has said, there are many charlatans out there trying to get people to give them money. We have never asked for anything other than to share with our brothers and sisters.
If the Father will not open one’s eyes and ears, no man can do it for them. So, as you say, Rob, I will just pray.
in Christ.
I would like to know where/how you learned to see the Lord and angels. Have you written about it before?
Rob,
Good question. I’ve not written about this much. However, I have published messages that my wife and I have received on a website. We’re still discerning what it is the Lord has called us to accomplish, if anything.
Regarding how I learned to see and hear the Lord, I didn’t learn. I don’t know that this is something that can be learned. Rather, it’s a gift that is given, the same as the gift of healing. We cannot approach but can only make ourselves available to the Lord and it is God who approaches us. The first experience I remember was as a child. I don’t know how old I was. It was at night and I was sleeping in a crib. Angels started appearing every night. Back then, I thought everyone could see them. That was decades ago. Now, I see them day and night, every day, 24×7, except when asleep of course. (If you can believe it, I had myself evaluated by a doctor and am not crazy. Trust me, I’ve questioned my own sanity many times over…)
The Lord, Jesus Christ, has also appeared at times. Talking about this usually gets me in trouble, since we all know that Jesus warned about people who say He appeared to them in their closet. Fortunately, He generally appears in public places. It’s difficult to describe because He does not appear as one might imagine, as if in the flesh. Instead, He appears in the same manner as angels do. I probably see him similar to the way apostles John and Paul saw Him. (No, I’m not exalting myself. Just trying to explain. Apostles John and Paul are far greater than I could imagine myself.)
When Jesus appears, He usually has a message to give. A repeating theme is: Turn to Me in all things; and remind My children of what I have done for them. — I have many experiences I could recount but, hey, who’s going to believe me, right?
Recently, I was allowed to videotape angels. So, now I have physical evidence that they are real. I haven’t published the video, since it’s difficult to prove that I didn’t fake it. But it’s proof enough for myself.
Jim, It would be a privilege indeed to see your video. Why don’t you post it here? I really believe the forum members would love to see it. As for myself it might even be what I am looking for to help cement my faith.
Rob, I would very much like to hear about your experience(s)
Regarding: “Who should God give a heart attack to?”
This is an odd question. Even when the people Moses led out of Israel turned against God, the Lord did not kill those who turned against Him but had Moses and those who sided with God to carry out that sentence. Nowadays, Jesus is our intercessor with the Father, who has not changed. The Father is unchanging and is the same as He was in the days of Abraham and Moses. Jesus Christ taught forgiveness and warned against judgement of others. The cup by which we measure out to others will be the cup that is used to measure out to ourselves. It is Jesus Christ who tempers the wrath of the Father. We should follow His teachings and not presume to counsel the Lord regarding punishment of others.
Jim, When we are talking about justice and retribution we can’t rely on what ‘might’ have happened in Biblical history. What should we do with the murderers and serious criminals of today, forgive them and not judge them? If we were sure of God’s intervention with the soul of the criminal that would be sufficient of course. But we are not sure, we are relying on faith.
Martin,
I agree, you can’t rely on “faith alone” to live a good life, so good works should include supporting society. I’ve no doubt that G@d alone can accurately judge the heart and soul of a murderer or serious criminal, yet we all have a personal obligation to keep society safe and healthy. It’s called loving your neighbor.
I will gladly share my experiences with you. Unfortunately, most are not interested. From what I have quickly read on this site most people want to convince you that what they “know” is true. They are not here to learn but rather want to be heard. I think that we all are a bit like that. I see myself wanting to be heard in a measure too. However, I have learned that most people don’t want anything to do with Jesus, Christianity, faith, miracles, healing etc. I feel for the sick that refuse to be prayed for or who parents refuse to allow a prayer.
I can really offend a lot of people talking about my Lord so I have learned to keep quiet much of the time and wait for an opening to talk about my Lord.
But you are right, I cannot keep my Light hidden under a basket.
I have been overseas to China, Vietnam, Suriname, Guatemala on short term missions trips. I ministered (served the people) in the power of the Holy Spirit often with prayer and healings were very common at times. Some of the heals were quite dramatic.
I have not “arrived”. I have not seen an angel. I know that there is more to see, learn and experience.
Rob
Rob,
Agreed. Too often, we come into a forum as a student but try to become a teacher. That includes me.
I’m humbled by your real world experience. I’ve not travelled so much. But I have watched people suffer and even die from illness and disease that could have been healed, if only they believed. As you say, people tend to shy away from healing by the Holy Spirit. This includes Christians. The reasons elude me.
Regarding the sight of angles, etc, it’s one of many charisms given to people by God. I know it’s real because I’ve met others who see and we’ve seen the same angels simultaneously. So, it’s not imagination. Often, people say they wish they could see what I do but I tell them to be grateful for the gifts they already have and be careful what you wish for. If you are able to see angels of God, there are other “unpleasant” things to be seen as well and discernment can be tricky. If everyone could see what was really going on around them all the time, this would be a very different world, indeed. There would be exactly zero atheists. ;)
I think that people who see angels and hear voices might actually need some help. In trying to discern where the angels and voice comes from. Most probly themselves.
As for Anna and her attitude toward catholics I also think that I might know what she means. In times past, before Christianity, some pagans actually did venerate the sacred heart of their version of the son of God. Just as catholics do today, as well as venerating the Blessed Virgin Mary, known as the Mother of God. Paganism had its version of that too, as well as venerating ‘saints’ of previously existing ‘holy men’, whom they called ‘saints’.
These saints, in paganism, each had different departments of life to look after. Such as travelling, working, even lighting fires. Then there where the pagan angelic messengers which where borrowed as well.
The pagan roots of Christianity are easily seen, if you look closely enough.
Christianity is trying to forget its pagan origins and trying to point out its Jewishness. Or maybe Anna is.
The Jewishness of Christianity only comes with Paul, and he was a zealous Pharisee. He was not a disciple. He never knew Jesus. He had only heard the story and believed it.What Paul brought with him was Jewish intolerence of non-belief. That explains why Christianity has such a bloody history.
They believe in the same religeously intolerent god as the Jews. Ex20.5 leads directly to Deut21.21.’Kill the non-believer’. Which has produced so much disharmony for the human race thru-out history.
And continues to do so even today in the form of Islamic fundamentalism.
The ancient philosphers had a saying,
‘Beware those who claim to converse with the Diety’.
rob taylor is an example of one who does not have eyes to see. If you have never tasted what we are talking about is utter foolishness. What we are discussing is foolishness to the unbeliever. We cannot argue one such him into the Kingdom of God. No offence rob taylor and I am not offended by your opinion that we are mad. You might be surprised at the “normal” people that hold professional jobs and have great families etc. that believe not only believe in the supernatural but have interacted in that realm on occasion.
Jesus never killed or counselled that non believer be killed. In fact he said to love your enemy.
Rob Webster,
I agree. No-one can be argued into the Kingdom. It’s the proverbial leading a horse to water. If you try to force the horse to drink, it’s likely to die of thirst. It’s human nature to fear or attack that which is not understood. With humility, I say that those whose eyes have not been opened by the Father have no basis for understanding some of the things we are discussing in this forum but I still encourage their participation. Perhaps, it may be something you have to say which will provide what they seek and their eyes will be opened.
What we can do is be supportive and try to assist those who truly seek Truth. Such are the ones whom Jesus would leave the flock of ninety-nine to go out and find the one. There is more rejoicing in Heaven when one who is lost becomes found than for those who have never been lost. Of course, those who have never been lost are loved just as much but for a lost one to return is cause for great celebration.
Robert Taylor,
Regarding your statement: “I think that people who see angels and hear voices might actually need some help. In trying to discern where the angels and voice comes from. Most probly themselves.”
You are partially correct. Discernment can be very difficult. I’m certain if we could speak with Abraham and the prophets, they would agree. What do you suppose was going through Abraham’s mind when he was told to sacrifice Isaac? I have, at times, questioned my own sanity. Fortunately, I’ve been evaulated and found to be quite sane. No-one can make another believe in spiritual things they cannot see for themselves. So, I won’t try to do that. I can say that there are people who have seen and heard the same things at the same time as myself. This is not something from imagination nor psychosis. That would be impossible unless psychosis is contagious – and I’ve even looked into that. Believe me, it’s not been without tremendous trial and effort that I can say with confidence that God speaks to all of His children. Most just aren’t listening.
Regarding your statement: “Beware those who claim to converse with the Diety”
Yes, there are many who claim to speak with Dieties. It’s difficult to prove who they are truly talking to. Many do talk to themselves and think it’s God. But I’ve found there is a tangible difference when God truly does speak. It is scriptural that we are to avoid those who practice mediumism. Such people claim to speak with the “dead”, a practice warned against in scriptures. I don’t speak with the “dead” but do speak with the “Living”, namely God. Of course, if we are to beware of all who claim to speak with a diety, then that would imply we must beware of Abraham, Isaiah, Elijah, John the Baptist, apostle Paul, etc. In other words, if we must beware of all who claim to speak with a diety, then all of Scriptures would have to be avoided.
I have a question: Why is it so difficult for people to believe that an omnipotent God has the power to communicate with whomever He wants, whenever and however He wants?
Robert Taylor,
You are correct about God the Father. He is unchanging and remains very strict. He is unmovable, as He was and is and will be. Jesus Christ, our Redeemer, although one with the Father, is our greatest intercessor with the Father.
Regarding comments about Apostle Paul: You said, “He was not a disciple. He never knew Jesus. He had only heard the story and believed it.”
That is incorrect.
1) Jesus appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus. So, Apostle Paul did know Jesus. His eyes were temporarily blinded during this initial direct contact with Jesus.
2) After his conversion, Paul became a disciple of Jesus, who taught him and inspired his writings.
3) Paul became an Apostle of Jesus Christ because Jesus taught him directly. Apostle Paul performed the same miracles as the other apostles of Christ and was accepted as one of them.
4) Apostle Paul did not bring Jewish intolerance but was persecuted for teaching against Jewish intolerance. He taught the same message of love and forgiveness that Jesus taught: “Love God with all of your being and above all else; And love your neighbor as yourself.” He was the one who argued with Peter, against observing the law of circumcision and what he referred to as “obsolete” Jewish laws.
Hi Jim,
Your posts are amazing. What a wonderful gift you have. I have searched for years for some sort of positive sign from God but alas nothing. I have heard of others seeing angels, such a woman was asked what they looked like and she gave description saying they looked just like the fictitious images one sees. Could you describe the angels you have seen, it would be interesting to compare your description.
Martin Ward,
God is absolutely so very real. Seek and you shall find; Ask and it shall be given to you. – Those who sincerely seek the Truth and persevere will be given the Truth. Just be certain of what you ask for. Some Truths are difficult.
Thank you for your kind words. It’s actually unusal to receive positive feedback from others. Most of the time, feedback is negative because we live in a very secular society where it’s not cool to believe in anything and, if we do, we’re labeled as crazy. In essence, what I experience becomes a source of persecution, in more ways than one. I don’t know why God chose me and one of the greatest fears I have is that I might indulge in vainglory or be accused of such. Each day becomes a lesson in humility. That said, I’m just not prepared to begin releasing videos. I will pray about it and, if the Lord wants me to do that, then I will post a video or photos.
Regarding how angels appear, this is not easy to describe. They have never appeared to me as if in the flesh – because they are not. Their appearance is more of a transparent form, as if what I see is light, not matter. Sometimes, they do appear in the classical form, with wings. It’s not clear that angels really have wings but there is sometimes the appearance. Most of the time, they appear as an orb-shaped cloud of light, often with a face. There is also a tangible presence felt, which is difficult to describe. When I have seen the Lord, He has appeared in a similar manner. I am not the only one to report these things. I’ve been meeting many others with similar experiences and the number of these people seems to be on a significant increase, as if something is about to happen.
There is documented evidence that some people can see otherwise invisible light wavelengths, such as electromagnetic fields. I see these fields, also. Regarding why and how we see angels, etc, there seems to be an explanation in quantum physics that I haven’t been able to nail down. I believe it might involve concurrency of the Heavenly realms with this universe, quantum manifolds, etc. But I really don’t know the answers. This might sound wacky, but if you were someone like me, wouldn’t you be trying to find answers, as well?
Jim,
What is the angels voice like when he talks. And do you hold a conversation with them? The thought struck me that if I had a conversation with a spiritual being I would ask about the afterlife e.g. would I see my dear mother and father again. I loved them so much and miss them so much. If I heard that I would see them again it would make me the happiest I have ever been.
Martin,
You will see your parents again.
Please be patient while I look into publishing a video. I am actually embarrassed to discuss this and would like to stop but will answer your question.
Primarily, I talk only with God. It’s very difficult to describe how the Lord communicates. It’s not like in the movies, where there is a voice booming out of the sky. It’s very different than just a voice. There is more to it and I don’t know how to describe it. There is something like a voice and thought that is not your own, among other devices which I will not describe here.
A doctor might say this is psychotic. However, this depends on who that doctor is. There exist doctors who believe what I say. There are many people on medications who should not be. Many are on meds because their doctor doesn’t believe what they see or hear is supernatural. They don’t believe in it, so they force their atheist beliefs on their patients and prescribe meds that mute charisms given them by God. Such doctors place themselves in great peril of judgement.
Yet, there are those who claim that a “voice” told them to do terrible things. In such cases, a medication might be appropriate but is never the cure. Jesus taught His disciples to cast out demons for a reason. That reason still exists. Just because one hears a voice does not mean they hear God. So, we do as instructed in the Gospel of John and “test every spirit.”
Jim,
Don’t feel embarrassed. What you have in your possession is something you should share with people who are genuinely interested. I don’t mean people who are just inquisitive but people who’s lives are likely to be changed. The quest to find the real God is the greatest quest of all. To help someone in that quest is surely one of the most Christian things to do.
Psalm 11:2 “For look, the wicked bend their bows; they set their arrows against the strings to shoot from the shadows at the upright in heart.”
I don’t call myself upright nor righteous but am weary of being shot at by those who only seek to bring others down. When I first started speaking about my experiences, I was naively excited to tell others. That excitement has become a feeling of shame from ridicule and persecution. I don’t speak of these things out of vainglory but to share good news with others. Yet, those who truly want to hear number few.
Many, or even most, who say they want the truth actually want only to hear their own preconceived notion of what is convenient for them. Those who seek the truth with sincerety will find it; And when they find it they may be troubled by it; But only for a time.
But a word on seeking the Truth: We cannot go out and take for ourselves. Instead, it is God who approaches us. We make ourselves open to God and to the “real” Truth. Become empty so that we can be filled. Then He will approach us and teach us.
Thank you so much for this article. Keep up the good work , as God directs. Mick Tulk.
Dear Sir:
I lost my father of liver cancer just a few months ago. I have been in grief since then and what makes this whole experience more painful is the thought that God allowed a loving, responsible, caring and good father to suffer and die from such a horrible disease.
I prayed hard and brought him to prayer healing sessions the months before he died. These and many others I did just didn’t work. Miracles it seems to me are selective. Or whoever makes them is very selective. If this is the case, there’s no point believing in them or in God’s love or omnipotence.
Thanks, anyway, for your insights.
Jess
Jess,
I too have lost my parents. I lost my dear mother six years ago and still miss her. And she died naturally at 90. If they die prematurely with a terrible disease it does seem as if life is futile and it’s difficult to reconcile all of that with a loving God. I think it’s that kind of suffering that causes most people to disbelieve. Great human suffering, I think that is the thing.
Dear Jesus,
Very sorry about the loss of your father. I too have lost my Dad in 1993.
God is very powerful so why are not all prayers answered? If we look at God as a magic genie or as someone to beg to then our prayers may not be answered.
Jesus said that we need to have faith. We need the faith of Jesus. If you know your Bible we will see that the disciples could perform a lot of miracles but could not throw out the demon that caused the child to be thrown down down into the fire or the water. They came to Jesus and asked him “Why could we not cast out the demon?” Jesus said,
“Oh you of little faith how long must I put up with this perverse generation?” (Rob’s version)(Then Jesus healed the boy)
We are a faithless lot! If we had the faith of a mustard seed we would say to the mountain, “be plucked up and cast into the sea” and it would be done.
Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly. How? By explaining the Kingdom of God and modelling it.
Is God’s will alway done? No of course not! Why would we pray – Your Kingdom come and your will be done. It’s because God’s will is not done. For example, Is it God’s will for a father to abuse his daughter? No. The man has free will. Sovereignty over himself.
Cancer is a disease and not from God. God can heal cancer but there must be huge FAITH! Faith so strong that that you know that he is healed!
However, we will all die. Our bodily systems will wear out and we will succumb to heart attacks, stroke, cancer or something. Life on earth is very very very important but eternal life is HUGE!
Keep praying and seeking God and reading the bible and God’s love for you will become very clear.
Rob,
How can you talk about the healing power of G@d and then declare that no power is great enough to heal us without limit? Even the Hindus believe that some folks are thousands of years old because they can heal themselves beyond “normal” limits.
Why so gloomy? If we are promised the ability to toss a mountain into the sea, why not heal our bodies?
John Donovan. God can and does heal our bodies. We have seen great miracles. Perhaps if we had the faith we could live to 10,000 years of age? I have sure never seen it though. There are many stories of people raised to life but no one in the past 10 centuries has lived past 130 years of age.
What’s more important is eternal life. That’s what I am after.
Rob,
I have to question the validity of your proclamation that “There are many stories of people raised to life but no one in the past 10 centuries has lived past 130 years of age”. This is called an “argument from ignorance” and is considered a logical fallacy. Just because you have no knowledge of such stories (and there are some), does not prove that truly ancient people doesn’t exist.
This is the main point from my earlier post. While so many Christians declare their faith in “eternal life” few declare their faith in the destruction of death or limitless healing. Yet these and greater things have been promised to us. What is everybody so afraid of? Sounding foolish for believing the words of Christ?
Jess,
I have often asked the same questions. Too often, I’ve watched some people die from a disease, such as cancer, while others are healed. Each situation is unique. Your loss is shared by many. But we too often forget that this world is not our reward but eternal life. Many saints have died after suffering long and painful illnesses. So, understand that such suffering is not punishment. You don’t know what else would have happened to your father if he had lived. God is merciful and just but, sometimes, it can take some pain before we realize just how merciful His mercy is.
I believe your father is in Heaven and joyful beyond human comprehension. Don’t wish that away from him but rejoice with him because he is home.
In Christ.
Jim,
How are you getting on with the video? If you are having problems why don’t you ask Perry how you can make an attachment. People do it so I don’t think it can be so difficult.
Martin,
I am sorry for delay. The video must be edited to extract an interesting scene into a short clip. I’ve been working a lot and haven’t had time to do any of this, yet.
Hi Jim, When you are ready, I am looking forward to hearing from you.
Jim, your positive attitude is heart warming. I am an absolute sceptic and just cannot take the word of others as evidence. You said the angel had wings, why? Wings are for flying in an atmosphere, why would an angel need wings, he/she is a spiritual being who presumably can move around in any medium. And of course one is immediately suspicious that you don’t want to share your videos. I would have thought you would be delighted to share them with someone who is genuinely interested. If you don’t want to publish them for all and sundry to see, is there a way you can send them to me? Is it possible to email them?
I can assure you Jim my interest is genuine. I have studied the work of theists and atheists for years in the hope I will find the truth.
Martin,
You are justified in being a skeptic. In the Gospel of John, we are instructed to “test every spirit.” I don’t know if angels actually have wings. As I said, there is sometimes the “appearance”. Perhaps, they do have wings. How can we know for sure? It’s best if we stop thinking of God and the Heavens in Earthly terms. Instead, consider that angels are inter-dimensional beings; And the Heavens are not “up there” and hell not “down there” but exist concurrently with this physical universe. It’s more appropriate to visualize a multiverse with quantum-level interactions in-between. How do we really know what it’s like in the Heavens, where God and angels exist? I don’t think we humans can comprehend it, even though there exist theories in physics that might begin to explain the very edge of this.
Regarding posting a video, etc: First, please know that I have nothing to prove to any human and only seek approval from God. Whether or not other people believe what I say is irrelevant. No-one can force another to eat the fruit of a tree. Each must make the choice for themselves. However, because you ask, I will look into publishing a video on the web, etc. I have to admit I need to learn how to do it.
I have frequently contemplated and prayed about ways that we might ask for and receive a sign, from God, that reveals the Truth beyond all doubt, about any subject whatsovever. So far, I have been unable to think of any single sign that can erase 100% of doubt from the human mind. This is where we approach the subject of “faith”. Think about it…
If I do publish a video, will you believe me then? I say, if you don’t believe me already, there is no video that will convince you. But I will do it, anyway, at my own risk. I say risk because I already know persecution. I expect for each person who believes the video is Truth, there will be at least ten who doubt and even persecute me for it.
Let’s take a real-world example: The Shroud of Turin. There is tangible physical evidence that can be touched and experimented with. Yet, the controversy remains. Is it real or a fake? It seems that, despite physical evidence and technology, you still have to decide for yourself. My video of an angell is no different. For more, watch this online video: http://news.discovery.com/videos/tech-shroud-of-turin-goes-digital.html
Hi Jim,
I think God prefers that we believe by faith. The problem is many of us are pragmatists and will never believe by faith alone. So we will go through life never believing. Is that what God wants, just the minority who are prepared to believe something as important as that without any solid evidence, just some 2000 year old letters brought into the canon by some historical figure?
And what about the Gospels of St Thomas and St James etc. which are not reconcilable with the New Teatament. Maybe that historical figure declared them apocryphal. What does he know, perhaps they are genuine? Is that what God wants, confusion and uncertainty? Sorry I just don’t get it. God must know I am eager for the truth but he doesn’t help me.
Hi Everyone on this forum:
I read almost every threads on this forum; there are 2 types of people here:
Type-One is seeking for truth and simply want some explanation, logical and human’s way of thinking. Type-One person in general believe that “God” exist in natural way and suppose to be understandable by human’s mind and conscious.
Type-Two of people here is people who proudly think they know what God’s mind and try to teach and convince the Type-One people. Type-Two person in general believe that “God” is something abstract and complicated being. So complicated and abstract that they even find it hard to describe what God really are. Then there come many versions of self-experienced that only he/she can understand (but believe me I doubt they do).
Type-Two person always refer to “what God says” (Apocryphal in Bible) as if he/she absolutely understand the meaning (or he/she individually or mostly collectively hereditary make self-interpretation of it).
I consider myself as Type-One person and believe God is simple thing to understand. Simple in term of finding God in His creation (universe); not in “His” multi-interpretation of Bible’s content.
God has given mankind a mind, conscious and intelligence to find God in all centuries. So why people stick to “old-fashioned” cultures written in Bible? People, cultures and knowledges are evolutes; think of creation of universe for example… If the Genesis version of story is written in this science-awareness era, I believe the story would be more scientific than just a “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” and “And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”….
My advice to the 2 types of people here in this forum, please be open minded in seeking God as God wants all of us to find Him easily. He is not hiding behind and only show Himself to the “saint” people.
We all can see God easily by exploring this universe and living being (human, animals, trees, rocks, planets, and galaxy)
This is my humble understanding of God that I would like to share with all fellows here.
Sincerely,
Benny Harlindong
Benny,
I agree with you on many points. There is no excuse for unbelief because we can see the proof for God’s existence in the the world and the universe around us.
Who are “saint people”? Aren’t we all called to be live saintly lives? Yet, who can say they’ve acheived such a goal? I assume you ask a question because you want an answer. Others might have their own reasons but here are some reasons why I stick with the “old fashioned” scriptures:
1) God is unchanging. Time is irrelevant. He is the Alpha and the Omega who was and is and will be.
2) The scriptures of the Holy Bible are time-tested. In the Gospel of John we are taught to test every spirit. If not for the scriptures that have been passed down we could not test every spirit and would be subject to much greater deception.
3) It is written that we are given the scriptures so that we might have hope.
4) Abraham is called the father of faith for good reason. He had a very difficult life and did not have scriptures we do to rely on. How many of us would be able to do as Abraham without some kind of guidance?
5) The Truth does not conflict with science. It never has and cannot unless the science of man is incorrect. What is written in some of the old testament are abstractions of what really happened, such as the story of Adam and Eve. But they are sufficient. After all, we should keep it simple, correct?
6) Finally, but not least, it is the Spirit of the Word that we should focus on, not the letter of it. The Spirit of God’s Word never changes and is fully applicable regardless of the century we live in. And as it was 2000 years ago, so it is today and will be.
Who can say what God is like? Who can say what the Kingdom is like? I tell you there is no-one in the flesh who can do this. God is truly incomprehensible to the human mind. Anyone who thinks they can fully comprehend God, in His entirety, is mistaken. God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. Our brightest scientists barely understand the simplest of His quantum physics. But such understanding is unnecessary.
Benny has a good point about people who try to teach but never listen. It is written there is only one teacher and He is God. Here are two questions for everyone: If someone believes they have the Truth, what should they do with it? If they tell others, how should they do so without sounding arrogant or self-serving?