7 Great Lies of Organized Religion – Lie #8
Where I grew up, they said: “Miracles don’t happen anymore. They ceased with the disciples.” I believed what they told me.
Dozens of personal experiences and medically documented cases have caused me to do a 180 on this. Miracles are REAL. The idea that miracles are fake is literally the 8th lie of Organized Religion. (Fake miracles masquerading as real ones are the other side of that coin, by the way… and there are many fake miracles.)
Miracles are far more common than many would have you believe. Today, I share several of my own personal experiences. And several thoroughly documented events.
Before we dig in, I need to tell you a conversation with my younger brother Bryan, whose story I tell in my book Evolution 2.0 and on my site www.cosmicfingerprints.com.
Bryan had gotten a Master’s Degree in Theology at Master’s Seminary in Southern California. Master’s is very conservative and holds a doctrinal position that miracles ceased after the disciples. He’d spent time in the ministry including a stint as a missionary. Because of mounting doubts, he was bailing on the whole thing.
He says to me:
“Perry, I’ve studied the New Testament inside and out. I’ve studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. And you know what? There is NOTHING in the Bible whatsoever to suggest that miracles should stop.
“So… WHERE’S THE MIRACLES???”
I rifle through my mental file folders. I’ve heard lots of stories 3rd hand. No personal experiences of my own to report.
(Gulp.)
He continues: “Every single supposed ‘miracle’ can be explained by sleight of hand, placebo effect, or wishful thinking. There’s no such thing as a medically documented miracle.”
He was definitely right about the New Testament part. Nowhere is there so much as a hint that the miracles were going to go away. In fact miracles are held out as proof of the authenticity of Jesus as the Son of God. From healing the paralytic to forgiving sins to feeding the 5000 to rising from the dead, all are offered as things only God can do.
I was quite concerned that he was right about the placebo effect and the wishful thinking. Made me queasy.
Felt like a sucker. A mark. Gullible.
Plus, when you turn on the TV and see the faith healers plying their trade, most of us run out of the room screaming. Educated people are way too smart for that, right?
What if all this stuff about miracles is hocus-pocus and Santa Claus? What an icky, shameful feeling.
My eyes were suddenly wide open for information that would either confirm or deny this.
For several months I was almost persuaded that he might be right.
But little by little things started happening. The evidence began to point the other way.
Experience #1: I had lunch near Cincinnati Ohio with an old co-worker named Charlie Keck. September 27, 2002. Charlie was an engineer who lived in Tipp City Ohio. His wife was named Geri, and she’d had lupus.
She’d *had* lupus. But she didn’t have it anymore.
She and Charlie had treated it for years, prayed for years that it would be healed, and it wouldn’t budge.
Then one morning at her Bible study, a woman suddenly stood up and said, “God just told me to pray for you, to be healed, RIGHT NOW.”
So they did. And Geri felt this warm sensation flushing through her abdomen and the lupus was healed. Just like that. No more doctor visits, no more treatments. The whole chronic disease, gone.
Experience #2: I got to Rajahmundry, India in June 2007 with the customer service manager at my company, Jeremy Flanagan. Jeremy, as it turns out, has been having experiences like this himself. Healing people.
At a church service one Sunday, the pastor, Isaiah Gottimukkala, invites anybody who wants any kind of healing prayer to line up in front of Jeremy. Jeremy calls me over to help him and we start prayin’ for people.
One woman, maybe 60 years old, had fallen a year ago and hurt her arm. She could not raise her elbow past the middle of her chest. When she moved her arm up and down she complained that her shoulder would crack and pop and Jeremy and I could feel that too, when we put our hands on her shoulder when she’d move it.
He started praying for her. Probably spent 15 minutes. By the time Jeremy was done both shoulders felt identical, there was no cracking and she could raise her arm above her head on her own strength.
I asked her to do it for me and I snapped a picture. She said it didn’t hurt anymore and both arms were equally good.
Another lady, Mary, maybe 30 years old, had somewhat recently had brain surgery to remove a cancerous tumor. She pulled her hair back and I could tell just brushing my hand over her head that there was a big piece of her skull taken out and a large indention on her head.
She complained that she’d been having seizures since the operation, and she has had no feeling anywhere in her left arm.
Jeremy started praying that God would heal her entire skull and put everything back. We prayed for her and prayed for her. After about a half hour her head hadn’t changed but she started feeling tingling on her skin and by the time we were done, she said she could feel everything with her left arm exactly like her right arm.
No success on her skull filling in. Not yet anyway. But she was VERY excited about the feeling come back in her left arm!
We go home, and 2 months later I email Pastor Isaiah’s brother, Ananth. I want to know if these people are “still healed.” (Or did the problems come back? It sometimes happens.) Here’s his reply:
Respected Mr. Perry Marshall,
Greetings from India!
Thank you very much for your prayers.
Your trip to India was amazing. Many were healed and increased their faith in God. They are sharing their testimony to many people. Many times they are asking about you and Mr. Jeremy for prayers. We told them that next year definitely they will come to pray for you and for many.
I would like to share the testimony of my Grand mother(My father’s mother). Her name is Mrs. Suvarthamma and her age is 75. She was suffering from severe headache and neck pain from so many years and also if she takes anything from her mouth she will be feeling pain in her throat.
After your prayers She is completely healed. She is very happy and doing all the works easily irrespecitve of her age. God did miracle in her life through your prayers.
Another women named Mrs. Mary, Her age is 30. She had operation on her head. Hair was fully sworn and the head was like smooth sponge. She used to have pain on her head daily. and also her hand is not working and she doesnt have any feeling on her hand.
After your prayers she bacame healed. She feels her hand and she can do works with that hand normally as another hand. Praise the Lord.
Every one hearing of her witness, asking us about you and requesting us to bring you back to India.
These are some of the Miracles happend because of your prayers.
My brother Pastor Isaiah and his wife Surekha and all the boys of the Rajah Boys Home and Pastors in the Deep Forest are sending their greetings to you.
Thanking you Sir,
Yours faithfully,
Ananth
I’ve told you about two people there in Rajahmundry India. There were many more – most got some benefit, some didn’t seem to get any. These are the most dramatic examples of what happened. But I’ll tell you one thing: I learned that prayer CHANGES things. Especially when administered the way the apostles always said to.
I fully understand that a lot of people reading this are very, very skeptical.
As well you should be.
After all, you weren’t there. You only have my word to go on.
Well, I forgot to bring my portable MRI machine on the plane so I could do before / after scans of all these people, and as concerns this particular event, my own eyewitness testimony is about as good as I can provide right here.
If you’ll stick with me, later in this article I’ll give you information on publicly documented miracles that you can investigate for yourself. Meanwhile I’ve got more personal experiences to share.
Todd Bentley: A crazy, controversial guy, but some of his miracles were real.
Experience #3: In the spring of 2008 a “revival” broke out in Lakeland Florida. Hugely controversial. A guy named Todd Bentley, a Canadian Harley-riding preacher guy with jeans and cowboy boots and covered with tattoos started healing people in this crazy tent meeting.
It grew and grew until 5,000 to 10,000 people were showing up every single night. This went on until August 2008. The whole thing caved in when Bentley was found to be having an affair with one of his staff members.
(Hey, I told you this thing was controversial. Wait, there’s more…)
I jumped on a plane and flew there to see the whole thing for myself. I was there May 27, 2008.
On the hotel shuttle bus to the meeting I met a woman from Hong Kong who had flown to London to pick up her daughter, a college student who had severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The daughter was skinny as a rail and looked like the walking dead. They were there to get healing.
I get there and the whole place is a freaking nuthouse. Loud music, crazy people dancing and singing, and rolling around on the floor. This Todd Bentley guy is marching around the stage, shouting, kicking people, slapping them, proclaiming them healed.
Across the stage the people go. Bentley is yelling all kinds of proclamations. At one point he stops and says:
“I’m telling you right now, somebody in here has been deaf in one ear for 34 years. Who is that? Thirty-four years deaf. The Lord just spoke to me. Come up here.”
I’m in the center section near the back. About 20 feet from me, over my shoulder and to the right, a guy raises his hand. “That’s me. I went deaf from a gunshot 34 years ago today.”
Bentley prays for him and he’s healed, instantly. You can watch this in this video:
The man’s name was Brian Burgee. He’s pastor of Rock Church of Tampa Bay.
Brian’s story was reported in the Charlotte Observer on June 19, 2008. You can read it here.
I met Charles Chandler, the reporter who wrote it. We have a mutual friend who lives in North Carolina. Chandler followed up with the people described in the article personally and checked their stories.
I was there that night. I saw it happen with my own two eyes.
This article is referenced on Wikipedia. My neighbor is the editor in charge of the Todd Bentley page on Wikipedia. The healings in Lakeland were such a hot potato, most of the mainstream media wouldn’t touch it.
When people are really getting healed and things are happening that the establishment claims are impossible, mostly what you get is silence. Or irrational protests from people who still insist it’s impossible.
(Not all that different from atheists trying to tell me DNA isn’t actually a code.)
Jeronimo and Noemia Cessito, Beira, Mozambique
Experience #4: I have a friend named Noemia Cessito. She and her husband Jeronimo run a school, church, AIDS hospice, medical clinic and feeding program in Beira, Mozambique. I went to visit them in the summer of 2003.
Mozambique is extremely poor. Luxuries that westerners take for granted are simply unheard of there.
Noemia tells this strange story:
When I arrived in Mozambique in 1984, the country was in the middle of a 15 year civil war. It was a hard time. A lot of people were dying not just from the fighting but from starvation.
One evening our church met for prayer. People started to pray for things like shoes, a chair, a shirt, a loaf of bread. I never heard anyone pray for a pair of shoes or a loaf of bread before. I had always prayed: “Lord, please provide for my needs.”
So, I was sitting beside this little six year old girl and we divided into pairs to pray. That little girl began to pray, “Oh God, give shoes to my brother, Carlos. Oh, God, give some some bread to my sister Maria. And I said “Amen” to each of her requests.
Later at home, I got down on my knees to pray some more and when I was kneeling, I was trying to pray for the war because I had heard about a terrible battle on the Zamebezi river.
In the middle of thinking about that, I got this desire for some ice cream. I thought, “Good Lord! How could I possibly think about ice cream now when there is so much war and starvation?” But yet, deep in my heart, I heard a voice saying, “Ask for some ice cream from God.”
I ignored the thought. How could I possibly ask for ice cream when so many people are starving and are in so much need? I continued to pray. But my mouth started to water because I so wanted to have some ice cream. And then I began to cry. I didn’t have the courage to say, “God, please give me some ice cream.” I knew that I could, but I didn’t have the courage.
But, then at the end of my prayer, I said to God, “God, I would sure love to taste some ice cream.” And then, I cried some more. I thought, how selfish can I be! There are so many suffering and starving. I was crying because I was homesick for Brazil, and I so wanted a taste of ice cream.
About noon the next day a truck from Zimbabwe drove up to the door where I was staying and the driver got out and knocked. He wanted someone named, Naomi. I didn’t understand English at that time but he kept saying Naomi, Naomi and I finally realized that Naomi must be my name in English.
So I took the package and when I touched it my heart froze. I knew right away what it was because the box was cold.
So I asked the driver, “Who sent this? Where did it come from?” He didn’t understand me but finally through gestures I got out of him that someone at the airport gave him that box to deliver to “Naomi.” It had been flown in on a plane from South Africa. To this day I have no idea who sent it or where it came from.
Well, I put that little carton of ice cream in the freezer of the refrigerator with a sense of overwhelming gratitude. It was then that I began to understand that I can ask from God even the most insignificant things.
Since then I’ve faced a lot of hard times. I’ve nearly died of malaria, and I’ve gone hungry. But, as the many difficulties arose, I would remember that carton of ice cream. It’s the biggest lesson of my life.
Experience #5: I’ve got a friend named Jess Smiley. She and her husband Sam live about 2 miles from my house. We go to church together.
Jess feels the sorrow, but sings anyway
The last 7 years have been HARD on Jess.
7 years ago her husband Jamie contracted leukemia, a form that is lethal. After a 2 year battle she lost him.
In the fall of 2007 her son Alex was 11 years old. He had started developing bruises on his skin and a doctor’s appointment revealed that he too had leukemia.
Wow. An 11 year old boy with leukemia. Imagine facing that.
Alex went through 9 months of brutal chemotherapy treatments and it went into remission.
18 months later, it came back. With a vengeance.
More chemotherapy. More prayers. More desperation.
Alex chose to stand up and FIGHT.
Since Alex was losing his hair, several of his friends, including Dylan Fancher, all decided to shave their heads as a sign of Solidarity with Alex during his healing and recovery process.
Below is a video of Alex shaving Dylan’s head in the restroom of Alex’s hospital room:
Alex Smiley shaves Dylan Fancher’s head: Solidarity, and Friends Forever
Just the day before, Alex had begun his Chemo treatments. (The joy of shaving Dylan’s head sorta made up for the first day of chemo.)
That was July 6, 2009.
On Wednesday, October 14, 2009, an infection raged out of control and Alex died. A young man full of promise, gone at age 13.
Jess had remarried since Jamie’s death. She lost both her husband and first-born son to leukemia.
She made it through Alex’s funeral under the care of friends, lots of prayer and a couple pints of vodka.
Words cannot express how grieved we all were. We all prayed so hard. For Alex to be healed. For this curse to be lifted. But Alex lost the battle. For whatever reason, rescue did not come.
Jess soldiered on.
It just so happens that we were with Jess at a church conference in Toronto. On the night of January 20, 2010, God SPOKE to Jess and in a moment of laser clarity, showing her that He was pushing a “reset” button on the destiny she thought she had lost. He was restoring to her what she thought was no more.
That night God also gave her an impartation of JOY and LAUGHTER.
The bitterness and the grief melted away and she began laughing with delight. For weeks she was almost giddy and exuberant.
It was like nothing I had ever seen.
All I can say is, you had to see it for yourself to fully appreciate it. I’ve told you some miracle stories. People getting healed of lupus, deafness and paralysis are all remarkable. But being healed from aching loss and sickening sorrow over a lost husband and dear son – that one takes the cake.
It’s not that she doesn’t miss Alex or Jamie. Or that she doesn’t still grieve. It’s just that the bitter sting has been taken out. Jess experienced a literal impartation of the beautiful scripture of Isaiah 61:
For those who grieve in Zion— to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair. They will be called oaks of righteousness, a planting of the LORD for the display of his splendor.
They will rebuild the ancient ruins and restore the places long devastated; they will renew the ruined cities that have been devastated for generations.
My friend, I do not know why Alex and her husband were taken from us. God alone knows the answer to that question.
But God did minister to her in her sorrow in a most profound way.
YOU have also lost loved ones.
YOU have also had unanswered prayers. We all have. I know the feeling of exasperation and desperation when you pray and it feels as though those prayers are bouncing off the ceiling.
Jess Smiley knows that feeling too. Believe me, she does.
You pray for the uncle or aunt or grandpa or child. Your prayer doesn’t get answered the way you want it to. It’s bitter and dark.
But you know what…
You only have to experience ONE undeniable miracle and then you KNOW. After that, there is no going back.
And that’s what happened to me. I’ve only shared a small collection of stories. There are others. They’re real and I’ve seen them with my own two eyes.
Experience #6: 0n April 17, 2012, I was at a conference in Moravian Falls, North Carolina, sitting right next to a woman named Dierdre from Sydney Australia when she was healed after 40 years of severe hearing loss in one ear. Here’s me interviewing her about what happened:
Remember Brian Burgee from Tampa Florida, above, who was deaf in one ear and was healed in 2008? With the Dierdre experience I have now seen TWO people who were healed from deafness in one ear, both from childhood accidents, both deaf in that ear for more than 30 years. I was a personal direct witness and I have both testimonies on video. Recall that Burgee’s healing was also verified by reporter from the Charlotte Observer.
I solemnly attest to you that all these people and experiences are true and I have reported them to the best of my ability.
I will never again be at the mercy of theories from someone who thinks miracles are fake. Cuz I know they’re real.
But they are my experiences not yours.
Do you want God to show up in your life?
Then right now I give you permission to ASK HIM. If you seek God you will find Him.
But there’s something else I wish to offer you as well.
And that is:
Documented evidence of other miracles.
1. The book “Real Miracles” by Richard Casdorph, M.D., medically documents 10 miracles. Each chapter is a case study of one miracle, including doctors reports, xrays, etc. It reports ailments like huge tumors, Multiple Sclerosis and cancer vanishing completely, with medical documentation.
If you’re the least bit curious about this, just go ahead and buy the book. It’s on Amazon.
2. In Catholic circles, the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima on October 13, 1917 is very well known and has been exhaustively documented. Literally 70,000 people including all kinds of newspaper reporters and people of every age and background testified to what happened near Fatima, Portugal. The event was predicted in advance on July 13, August 19 and September 13 that same year by three children. Which is why thousands of people were there to witness it.
Wikipedia does a good job of summarizing what happened. (Yes, I understand, if you’re a protestant you probably don’t relate to the “Virgin Mary” stuff. That’s OK. There’s no rule that says you have to.) I encourage you to study the event for yourself and see if there isn’t substantial evidence that something miraculous occurred.
3. In September 2010, the Southern Medical Journal published an article titled: Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Proximal Intercessory Prayer (STEPP) on Auditory and Visual Impairments in Rural Mozambique. The official publication can be found here and the original authored manuscript from Indiana University can be found here. 24 people were tested; hearing of deaf subjects improved by 10-60 decibels. Vision of some of the blind subjects also improved, ranging from none to 15X.
I am personally only 1 degree of separation from the healers involved in this study. Here in Chicago I have some friends Nathan and Liz Stanton. They were married in Mozambique by pastor Heidi Baker who is a missionary there. For the Southern Medical Journal research, Heidi Baker partnered with Global Awakening in Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania, who sent a teaching team to my own church not long ago.
Heidi Baker is well-known in Mozambique for going into villages, asking villagers to bring her their deaf, then healing them. At minute 5:56 you’ll see Heidi Baker heal a deaf woman in front of a large crowd of people, live:
This video is an excerpt from the movie Finger of God. by Darren Wilson. He’s the narrator of this documentary. I’m personally acquainted with him, having met him in November 2009. Darren himself was ardently against miracles until a relative experienced a miracle he could not explain, which launched him on a journey of investigation.
4. On Friday August 30 2010, Delia Knox was healed after two decades of paralysis. She stood up in her wheelchair in the Mobile Alabama Convention Center and walked around the room in the presence of thousands of eyewitnesses.
The following report appeared in the Mobile Alabama Press-Register, September 2, 2010:
MOBILE, Alabama — On Christmas Day 1987 singer and evangelist Delia Knox lost the use of her legs after a car she was a passenger in was struck by another vehicle driven by a drunken driver.
Now, on a video made last Friday, Knox is seen walking for the first time in 22 years during a revival at the Arthur R. Outlaw Mobile Convention Center.
The video, which is on YouTube and on the site of the Mobile church run by Knox and her husband, Levy Knox, is said to be a testament to not one, but numerous miracles said to have taken place during the Bay of the Holy Spirit Revival.
You can watch the YouTube video of the live healing taking place here:
On Thursday October 21, 2010, Delia Knox returned to her home town of Buffalo, New York and into her mother’s arms. The local TV station WIVB Channel 4 taped the homecoming and reported the healing:
Delia Knox and her husband Levy, next to her wheelchair
Finally there are some things that need to be said about miracles. Quoting 1 Corinthians 12:28:
“And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
“Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts.”
If you’re a Christian, I challenge you with this:
Much of the church has been actively disobeying this. These verses clearly present a hierarchy of authority and gifts:
1. Apostles
2. Prophets
3. Teachers
4. Workers of Miracles
5. Healers
6. Helpers
7. Administrators
8. Those who speak in tongues
The protestant church has amputated #1, #2, #4, #5 and #8. The teachers and administrators have been left in charge.
Paul said to desire the greater gifts.
I know pastors and seminary professors who’ve been fired from their jobs because they believed in miracles. How tragic and anti-Christian that is. I have a friend who had severe ADHD and was deaf in one ear. He was healed of both at once in May 2007. He won’t let me use his name and picture here on my blog because his father is a prominent figure in evangelical Christianity and news of a miracles might threaten his dad’s career.
And we wonder why the church is anemic??? We wonder why there’s an atheistic bias in the western world? It’s no surprise church has become a flaccid, legalistic, boring institution. A dreary way to kill an otherwise enjoyable Sunday morning.
It’s because 5 out of the 8 spark plugs have been yanked out. The engine is coughing and sputtering on 3 of its 8 cylinders.
Why are “Cessationist” arguments invariably so complex and insert all kinds of assumptions which themselves have no scriptural support?
MANY Christians say to me, “Absolutely I believe God still heals. God can do anything He wants to. God just does it whenever he chooses to now. He doesn’t heal through healers.”
If that’s you, I’ve got a question for you:
Can you show me ONE place in scripture – Old or New Testament – where ANY person was healed without a healer?
The church has sliced off one of its testicles and thrown it in the garbage. No wonder it doesn’t feel like a man.
This is one of the reasons that TV healing ministries have become such a circus: it’s partly because most of Christianity has marginalized the healing gifts. This is why some healers are charlatans. But it’s a whole different world when you see people whom you’ve known for years get healed in person, with your own eyes – not on TV. When you experience it for yourself, like I have.
When the church begins to operate on all 8 cylinders, it becomes a force to be reckoned with. As all my friends who’ve been healed will attest. The atheists and cynics and religious gestapo can whine and moan all they want to, but real people are being set free every day.
(Oh, and I haven’t said a single word about the awesome power of prophetic people. I’ll save that discussion for another post.)
In Matthew 11, Jesus’ cousin John the Baptist was in prison. He was depressed and discouraged. Nothing was going the way he’d planned. He had grave doubts because his prayers weren’t being answered.
John sent a message to Jesus.
When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, “Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?”
Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me.”
Amen.
Perry Marshall
P.S.: There’s a popular atheist jingoism these days: “Why doesn’t God heal amputees?” It’s often stated with spitting anger and venom. The assertion is made that there’s no such thing as an amputee whose arm grew back. This held up as proof positive that miracles don’t exist.
To date I haven’t personally met an amputee whose arm has grown back. Today I told you what I have seen. The closest I’ve come is my friend Yosef Bender from Chicago. Yosef was at a Kathryn Kuhlman healing service many years ago. (Casdorph’s book “Real Miracles” investigates 10 of Ms. Kuhlman’s healing incidents.) Behind Yosef was a woman who had one arm that was too short with a single finger at the end instead of a hand.
From the stage, Kuhlman called out that there was someone up in that section whose arm was deformed. A few seconds later, Yosef heard this intense commotion and loud crying behind him. He turned around and this woman’s hand had fully grown back. She was so happy she was crying hysterically.
This is as close as I’ve personally gotten to a healed amputee.
Documented histories of healed amputees do exist. The Miracle of Calanda occurred in Calanda, Spain in 1640, according to 17th century documents. The documents state that a young farmer’s leg was restored to him after having been amputated two and a half years earlier. This event is described in detail in the book Il Miracolo by Vittorio Messori. This is described in detail on Wikipedia.
I rather suspect there are at least a few healed amputees out there. Will the skeptics listen to their stories? I don’t know. Will they change the skeptics’ minds? I don’t know. But if you want to think for yourself investigate these things on your own, I recommend that you start by reading “Real Miracles” by Richard Casdorph, M.D.
Since you obviously believe in evolution and the Big Bang theory. This is my question. As far as I know the Big Bang theory goes that some gases accumalating together and started the Big Bang which led to evolution. I’m no expert on evolution I only take it to refute it’s so called theories. My question is, where did the gaese come from? I mean are you trying to tell me that everything came from nothing? The gases had to have had some kind of origin right? So where did they come from. Evolution pretty much teaches that everything came from nothing. So explain to me where the gases or the origins if evolution started. Simple question. We believe in the Almighty Creator, you believe everything came from nothing, is that logical? By the way, as to my comment about why you say nothing about Judaism and Islam which are similar to Christianity. Is it not true that you are simply afraid to criticize them. If you go so far as to criticize Christianity, you should also criticize Islam and Judaism which are simliar faiths. Don’t you believe in equality. I think you are simply afraid of offending Muslims and Jews, but it shows your hypocracy.
The big bang clearly implies something-out-of-nothing. Genesis 1 translated literally says “In the beginning of time God created out of nothing, everything.”
I believe that the origin of life is the 2nd singularity.
‘Before there was existence there was not even non-existence’.
This is the opening line from the Rig Veda. The Hindoo story of creation. In order to have a good understanding of truth I believe it is necesarry to have a small knowledge of all the other main beliefs that have been around for thousands of years. If one only knows about ones own belief and are ignorant of others then what is your faith really founded on?
Is your faith strong enough to bear exmaination by comparison? Read other beliefs scriptures and see what is good and what is not so good about them. You may find that you have a lot in common. You may even be converted.
Faith, after all is just faith. Its not actually based on knowledge. Just as long as you believe in God and are a good person, surely thats good enough to get you into paradise?
There is nothing called “nothing”. Even empty space was “created”by GOD. Empty space has energy, and has a shape that can be altered by gravitational and other fields.
Latest findings indicate that continuously, in empty space, matter and antimatter, and photons and anti photons are generated and re-combined.
Matter and energy (light or photons) are waves in a sea of matter, anti-matter, photons, and anti-photons.)which are what we perceive using our senses and instruments as planets and stars and energy.
To fish, an empty pond may look like “nothing” – though we know that there is water in the pond.
So there is not much logic in trusting our senses and logic is searching for TRUTH. TRUTH can only come to you as an INSPIRATION from GOD. It is called FAITH, which is a grace from GOD, which is given only to certain men.
Creatures other than men don’t have faith. They perform what they do by instinct, or according to what they are programmed to do- more or less like how a car egine starts when you turn the ignition key.It has no choice.
Human beings have choice, and on the basis of their beliefs or faiths, they can even sacrifice their own lives for a cause they believe in.
Creatures other than men don’t have faith. as far as we know creatures other than men don’t have rational minds, which I understand to be a gift from God. Faith, on the other hand is something else, something just sligthly irrational. There are just too many ‘Faiths’ available and it is quite difficult to know which one go for so I have decided to remain a rationalist. I’m sure God won’t really mind because I’m a pretty good person at heart. I even go to church, although not to worship but to observe and learn.
I seek to know what is truth and have not yet found it.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam all come from the same root. The roots of Judaism can also be found in the various Pagan beliefs of the nations that where around the Isrealites during their early years as a nation. Babylon, Eygpt, Phoneicia, and various others.Ancient Isreal fluctuated between multi god worship and mono-god worship. Even Moses created a brazen idol of a serpent that was worshipped for hundreds of years until it was smashed by Hezakiah, king of Judah. 2 Kings 18.
The real problem is that some religeons react violently to criticism. They all have a history of such behavior. King Hezakiah was a religeous fundamentalist. they don’t need much of an excuse to ‘smite’ someone.
Peace be upon you.
God is Love. He/She even loves the non-believer.
In that I do have faith.
The wages of sin are death. No sin no death. If you are forgiven your sin you should not die. If you die you must not have been forgiven. Man does not live by bread alone….
@Kevin Noakes, There are 2 kinds of death. The physical death of our earthly bodies is the wages of original sin. All men are appointed to die this death once. A spiritual death is far worse. It is the spiritual death we avoid through forgiveness of our personal sins because of the grace provided when Jesus died on the cross for us. Peace to you…
The earthly bodies were always destined to die.
Adam and Eve, when they were not corrupted in the Garden, did not have to die. But when they became infected, they had to be sent out of the garden, and quarantined, and trapped in a material world, till they are administered anti virus vaccination, after which they will be tested before given permission to become part of the Church (Jesus’s resurrected body free of material constraints, whose head is Jesus).
Each one of us is a stem cell which has to grow in the womb of Mother Earth, according to God’s plan to become a certain part of Jesus’body (church), to perform some specific function. More important than gaining capability to perform, is the necessity to shed the satan’s virus which we have inherited from Adam. As long as we are in control of that “Trojan” virus, we will never be let in, as that could jeopardise the security of the whole Church. On our own, we may be imperfect and incapable or incomplete. But in union with the rest of the church, we will become one with Jesus, who have all the capabilities including power to work miracles.
Kevin – You’re on to something that most folks have lost. I would go as far as to say the greatest sin is to teach others they cannot live.
I really think the whole argument about whether or not miracles really exist or are good flys in the face of a KEY concept. THE SPIRIT. Someone here even brought up the notion that blasphemy or insult against The Spirit was unforgivable. That means be careful and tread lightly…
Consider this: All healing comes from The Spirit, hence to deny the ability or generosity of The Spirit to heal sounds a bit like an insult.
Maybe it’s just me but it makes a lot of sense. If you have an “unforgivable” sin then you will die, or at least your body will…because you don’t believe you can be healed. You get what you believe you’ll get.
If somebody (let’s say his name is Donov II) said
“Insulting SATAN is unforgivable. That means be careful and tread lightly…
Consider this: All good things comes from SATAN, hence to deny the ability or generosity of SATAN to heal sounds a bit like an insult.
What answer will you give Donov II?
I’d say that he’s being too polite…and a bit ignorant because all good things do NOT come from SATAN. The way I see it, The Spirit is somewhat like a grandma. She is the source of all things good tasting. If you insult her, no cookie. It’s not rocket science.
God must surely be above ‘insults’. You speak as if it is possible to actualy insult the supreme diety, just as if he where human. How silly. You imply that God is actualy feeling agrieved because someone has upet him.
How is it possible for God Almighty to be insulted by mere man?
One reason that this should make sense is because it is a categorical deduction from principle claims assumed to be true. However, is the principle claim true “The wages of sin are death”? Is the 2nd claim (the salvation corollary that someone has the power to forgive sin) true? Empirical evidence best sustains confidence. Only in time and its history will we find out. We are on this hook.
I believe God is rational and has laws that have technical significance.
Here’s some empirical evidence: (1)Almost everybody believes they have to die. (2)The Spirit gives us everything we believe.
Lesson: Be careful what you believe.
However, I agree that believing one HAS to die is off the mark (aka: sin).
This is FAR from the most important Christian issue on this site that 185 comments could have been spent on. Look. If you haven’t seen a miracle and don’t want to believe in miracles, fine – love people as far as you know how. If you do believe in miracles, great – love people as far as you know how.
Do you think it’s fair for us to come to some former leper in India with our arguments and say that this or that didn’t happen because our logic is obviously so sound… when *they* were the ones with the experience? Can we tell someone we haven’t met what God didn’t do for them because He wouldn’t do it for them, and the fact that they think He DID means that they’re either lying or delusional or demonized?
Listen, HAVE your opinion, whatever it is: for miracles today, against miracles today, or undecided – whatever it may be. But let’s spend our mental energies on things like devising ways to be like God (i.e. heal people… and I DON’T just mean physically and wherein I do mean physically, I do include medically).
The *point* of miracles is that there is Hope – that the way things are, is not the way they will be. Whether miracles still happen or not, take the *point* and reproduce it whatever way you know how.
If miracles DO happen, praise God; let Him do it! If miracles DON’T happen, praise God; He must have a plan! Meanwhile, for goodness sake, just do what you know to do and trust Him to fill you in on an as-needed-only basis. Because, frankly, the only sign you may ever get that you need to know the answer to this question is experience. Otherwise, what good can we possibly do for the world and the Kingdom to speculate and argue?
Love, trust, learn, do the best we know to do. Sheesh, we act like following Jesus is complex.
I like your trend towards simplicity, enter as a child. But I don’t understand your metaphor about someone in India. Are you presupposing that G*d doesn’t or can’t touch someone in India?
Maybe you’re trying to explain how or why bad things happen to seemingly innocent people. Maybe you could expand a bit.
Thanks,
John
Enter as a child.
What age is this child? What does the child understand? Does it have any understanding at all? Is it a baby, with no knowledge or understanding of itself? Surely that cannot be right. One must know what it is that you believe in. One cannot possible get into heaven without some effort on your own. A chid does nothing for itself. Can’t even take itself to the toilet. Is that what you mean? Is heaven just full of people with no minds wearing nappies?
I know thats a little flipant but the idea is rediculelas.
Surely God wants people to know what they are doing?
Hmm, I think that the acquisition of physical immortality should be considered as a miracle of the grace of god to the human species and that this is the correct form to discuss this. I think that this is the END GAME plan espoused by christ and predicted for by his revelation and that this is a fundamental technical feature of the laws of god for us to be filled in on.
Physical immortality is an immposibility. Everything that grows from seed has a natural lifespan. Including us humans.
We at least have the ability to try to understand ourselves. That I think is the goal, or END GAME. The story of Christ is not to be taken literaly. The Gnostics thought that he did not phsyicaly ressurect but only spiritualy. it was thought by them that the way to know God was thru knowing ones-self.
The Revelation was written by unknown person or persons at an unknown date. Some think possible as late as the sixth century or even later. Your gues is as good as anyone else’s.
hi there,I don´t profess to be a Christian but in my own experience I have cured with Gods help many people in my life. I think it is wrong to single out protestants as a sect who have extracted sections of the bible. The catholic church founded by Constantine decimated the bible to combine Christianity with Constantines pagans. I can understand that this was done in an effort to miantian peace and the bible says blessed is the peacemaker but the fact remians that a very large proportion of the bible was destroyed. What is left is a very good guide to follow and I respect what remains but once read and I have read the bible many times, all that is needed is to ask GOD every morning and throughout the day to send his love to help. Anyone who does this with a real desire will have a permanent glow of GODS love with them at all times.May GOD´S love be with you always. Arthur in Paraguay
I am very much interested to know which parts of the Catholic Bible are the pagan ones added by Constantine.
Christianity borrowed much of its teachings from paganism.
John 1. ‘In the beginning there was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God etc…’.
This is a fragment of some Pagan treatise on the Platonic philosophy, and as such it is quoted by Amelius, a Pagan philosopher as strictly applicable to the ‘Logos’ or Mercury, the Word, as early as the year 263 BC.
‘And this plainly was the WORD, by whom all things where made, he being himself eternal, as Heraclitus also would say; and by Jove, the same who the barbarian affirms to have been in the place and dignity of a principle, and to be with God, and to be God, by whom all things where made, and in whom everything that was made, has its life and being; who, descending into body, and putting on flesh, took the appearence of a man, though even then he gave proof of the majesty of his nature; nay, and after his dissolution, he was deified again.’
This is how the pagan Son of God, Mercury was described.
He was also known as The Saviour of the human race.
Also known as The Light. The Way, The truth.
All this is pre-Christian, by at least 260 years.
The concept of God having a son is purely pagan. To say such a thing to a Jew would be utter blasphemy to him.
They are true Monotheists who say that God cannot be divided. Once you have admitted a man alongside God it is not that far from admitting other men alongside God. The Saints. The early Christians borrowed the idea of saints being in heaven with God from the Pagans too. The saints could be prayed to to intercede with God to cure disease and ailments. Jesus’s own mother was thought to be in Heaven and the early Christians prayed to her as a minor deity, especially women who where about to give birth. She was known as the Queen of Heaven, which was a title that had been borrowed from those who worshipped the goddess Venus.
When Christianity came into power, during the reign of the roman emporer Constantine, all books of the pagans where ordered to be burned. Anyone who tried to keep pagan books was to be put to death.
Some of the other pre- Christian ‘Sons of God’.
Chrishna. The oldest Son of God story, About 7000 years old. All other Sons of God can fairly be described as copies of this one. Hwas born of a virgin, escaped in infancy from a tyrant in his country, did many wonderous things curing disease etc. The resemblences of this faith and christianity are almost mirror-like. Same stories, different god-man.
This son of God belief seems to have travelled to ancient Eygpt in pre christian times.
Apollo. Son Of God.
Mecury. Son of God.(Known as the Word.)
Bacchus. Son of God. Known as Yes. The God of good cheer.
In Greek, ‘Yes’ is spelled ‘IHS’, which can still be seen in churches today.
Prometheus. Son of God. Thought by his follwers as ‘both God and man,- perfect God perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting; equal to the father as touching his godhead, but inferior to the father as touching his manhood; who although he was God and man,yet was he not two, but one Prometheus….. etc.’ ‘In a word
Prometheus taught each usful art to man.’
He was eventualy crucified.
These Sons of God ideas would have been unthinkable to a true monotheist. To associate such an idea to the Jewish God Yahoo would be probably the worst sin possible.
If the principle of “SON of GOD” can be seen in different cultures from different parts of the world, it should only strengthen rather than weaken its veracity.
If I saw that 2and 3 made 5 while counting tomatoes in Turin, and Avocados in Australia, and cabbage in Canada, the probability of it being true is only increased with each observation.
Personally, I would like to have a God who loves me like a “father”, rather than a God who manufactured me like a car, or keeps me like a domesticated animal to meet /fulfill his needs /requirements.
Son of God stories.
If you accept that there where older Son of God beliefs than Christianity then surely its safe to assume that the story of Jesus is a copy of a previous story. The heroes of the other stories never actually existed. But people had ‘faith’ in them before Christianity outlawed them by edicts of the emporer Constantine,the first Holy Roman Emporer. Christianity has a history of violence against non-believers.
2+3=5 anywhere in the universe.
As for God being a loving father figure.
This is obviously not true. God describes himself as a ‘Jealous God’. A fearful God.
There is no love in jealousy, there is only tyranny.
Do as I say or else!
Love abides, never changes. There is no jealousy in love. Love is freely given, asks nothing in return.
The only true love on earth is the love a mother has for her children. All other love is delusion.
If love comes with conditions what kind of love is that? The condition being that you must worship. If you don’t then you are punished.
Perhaps we would be better off with a female God Almighty. There would probably be less wars then and childbirth might even be less painful and dangerous
God is Love.
I read most if not all what was written in the comment section, I am not one to spring forward with my own comments but this subject is very personal to me.
I was brought to Jesus through his mercy and an act of a miracle. I thought all the people who I knew that believed in Jesus or miracles were crazy or at least a little off their rocker until it happened to me through a momentary leap of faith Jesus touched me and healed me of an on going medical problem I had been dealing with for several years.
I had been bringing my wife to different churches for several years and did it because it was her thing not mine , I even hated going but took her any way. [remember I thought they were all nuts in these churches]
I live in Brasil and my wife was asked to be an interperter for a visiting group of healers from all parts of the world called Global Awakening.
On day 2 of their visit a gentleman was on stage and said some things that made sence to me about at least having an open heart and an open mind weather about religeon or politics or just about any subject because without it you may just miss something [this is what I took away he might have been saying something totaly different] Then they went into the healer prayers and I was just watching then when they had said those with back problems to stand I did , something came into my mind and said go for it give in to the open heart and mind and have some faith for once in your life this could be your opportunity.
So I stood up and as I was listening to what they were praying for I opened up my heart and mind for the first time ever, I was the biggest sceptic about this that ever walked the earth, then all at once the hand of GOD touched me on my spine and I heard and felt this HUGE CRACKKKKK . It scared me because it was my back that made the sound and I felt the touch of GOD literlly. I was scared at first and I even looked around to see if anyone had heard the sound as well., but all seemed normal.
I sat my Butt down and did not say a word even that evening not a peep to my wife, I was waiting for my pain to come back.
2 days later I was still pain free I I decided to speak up about the miracle GOD had done and I decided I wanted JESUS in my life. It is now almost 2 years later and I am still virtually pain free. Keep in mind I had had surgery and every possible type of therapy to help with the pain before that day. I no longer take pills for pain or even complain about pain in my spine. I had been doing so for about 8 years every day all day.
The bottom line is this
ITS ALL ABOUT FAITH AND WITH GOD ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE
If its all about faith then its just so easy. man can have faith in just about anything. one mans faith is another mans superstition. all you got to do is believe. just believe.its real believe me its real.whatever is it is that you believe in, its real, believe me.
believing is the easy bit. does’nt matter if it does’nt make sense or is impossible. just keep on believing.
those of you who feel the need to believe in impossible things that is.
at the last count there where about 800 different branches of christianity in the USA. that effectively means about 800 different christian ‘faiths’.
which of these ‘faiths’ has the truth? if there is any such thing.
I do’nt believe Jesus ever existed. I have no faith. not just in the very many branches of christianity, but in any of the other ‘faiths’ that are available to believe in.
I seek to know Truth. as far as is humanly possible but I consider ‘faith’ to be a hindrance in the search for truth.
yes ‘miracles’ can happen if you have faith that miracles can happen. but ‘faith’ is just ‘hope,’hope that whatever it is that you believe in is true.
Truth Seeker – You do have faith: faith that Jesus didn’t exist. ;-)
There’s nothing wrong with faith, per se. Everybody has faith in something, whether it’s faith in logic, faith in the potential of man, faith in politicians, faith in government, faith in science, faith in evolution, faith in God, etc.
It’s not a question of whether you have faith or not. You do have faith. The question is: “What do you have faith in?”
If you put your faith in the wrong things, you will be disappointed. But if you put your faith in the right things, then you will not be disappointed.
Ryan
When I say I have no Faith I’m talking about religeous faith. To have that kind of faith means that you believe in impossible things. Things that are un-verifiable. The believer has faith that the things he/ she believes in are true. Religeous Faith. Religeous faith cannot be put on the same footing as faith in science or human potential or politians. Religeous faith is either true or it is false. I do’nt need faith to believe that Jesus never actually existed. You do need faith to believe that he did. There is actually no strong evidence for the existence of Jesus.
The evidence for his existence is flawed. the passage in Josephus is a forgery according to most of the scholars. But do’nt take my word for that. Look it up for yourself. Compare the passages as they are written.
As to miracles still happening. Of course they do. Almost everyday in some places. People make special pilgramage to such places as Lourdes in France. There have been many miracles attested to there. There are abondoned wheelchairs and crutches all over the place . the walls are scrawled with writing saying thanks for curing such and such a disease. Little notes with prayers on are stuffed into every nook and cranny. The faithful here are worshipping The Blessed Virgin Mary. The Mother of God. Who they think is in Heaven, with Jesus her Son and his Father, God, Creator of the universe. So yes, miracles are still happening, in the name of one diety or another.
All you have to do is BELIEVE!
Dear robert ,
You need to have faith in some system to be able to say what you have said in your post.
When Einstein commented “God does not play dice” about the Heisenberg’s “uncertainty principle”, he said that according to a certain faith he had in a system. But the system in which you or Einstein have faith in, need not necessarily or always be reflecting truth. You are just acting on what your brain has analysed from information you have assimilated till then. You like Einstein, can experience a change of faith as you gather more information. and as your tools for analysis improves.
Faith.
Of course, as I learn and understand more my ‘faith’ or understanding will change. But it will only be because I ‘know’ more. I have taken the trouble to find out more. When one has ‘faith’ it usually means you have stopped looking. In fact people of faith, for the most part do not usually read or attempt to understand things outside of their faith. For some it is a sin to explore.
People like Einstien based their faith on knowledge rather than blind faith. Truth as far as I am concerned is verifiable. If it cannot be verified as ‘fact’ then it is called a theory.
Such as the theory of evolution. Which, in all probability is closer to fact than theory.
Whereas the faith that Christians, Jews and Muslims have, is, in all probability, closer to theory than fact. Probably.
Dear Robert and others to have faith is one thing but to have faith anchored in the truth is another. The truth is out there and as someone said that there is 8oo churches in the USA. Which one has the truth.
That is why Elias must come to restore our faith to to original gospel. (Malachi 4). I believe he came already but was rejected by all the churches because he did not say what they wanted to hear.
Check it out for yourselves and decide.
http://www.believethesign.com/intro.htm
“That is why Elias must come to restore our faith to to original gospel. (Malachi 4). I believe he came already but was rejected …”
God’s plans always come to fruition. Therefore, Elijah has not been rejected. That is not God’s plan. Many have claimed to be Elijah in recent years but were not he. Yes, Elijah must turn the hearts of the children to the Father before the end. I tell you Elijah is here but you have not yet recognized him. It is up to the Father to open the eyes and ears of His children at the time of His choosing. Soon…
Malachi means messenger. No one knows who wrote the chapter called Malachi. So it is a little difficult to give it any authority. As for Elias, who is he?
What is his authority? I don’t remember him coming or even being rejected. What was the ‘original gospel’?
There are approximately 800 different branches of Christianity in the USA. They are all derived from
the Catholic Church, which as we all know is derived from Paganism. If Malachi is talking about the ‘original gospel’ what gospel is it that he is talking about? Malachi is in the OT which is pre-Christian.
Perhaps the Truth is ‘out there’, but I have yet to see it. It is certainly not in the bible.
Unless I’m missing something. Which is always a possibility. And it is a good read.
Ryan,
truth seeker says he has no faith, that he doesn’t believe that Jesus existed. What part of that sentence suggests he has faith that Jesus is fictional? Nothing.
If I told you that there’s a little green goblin that lives under my bed would you believe it? Probably not, or at least I hope not. Would I be justified in saying that you have faith that it doesn’t exist? Absolutely not. It is a fanciful claim, one that would require _me_ to provide evidence. You have no reason to believe until I can convince you with that evidence. Faith has nothing to do with it.
So, why should your beliefs not be held to the same scrutiny and logic? He says he does not believe in a god(s) or that Jesus existed. Most likely because there is no evidence to give him reason to.
Can you convince him otherwise? With actual evidence? Or does it all just come down to believing something which makes you feel good about your eventual death?
Dear truth seeker; whilst I understand your thoughts on “faith”, may I give the following reflection- faith is just one aspect of the Christian experience. I think you misunderstand the context of “Faith alone”. Yes, that is the nature of salvation, if we choose to accept it as God has offered it (unconditionally, with eternal life if we believe in Jesus as our redeemer) this is not the same as faith in the sense that you are quoting it (i.e. interpreting the Bible and making sense of the “Christian experience”).
If I may explain further: you make reference to about 800 or so Christian “faiths” by way of example in your point. It was for me, for a long time, also a case of weighing up all of these denominations and wondering which was “correct”. Our usual human take on things is that where there are differences of opinion (in this case, all of the Christian denominations)- then it is natural to think in terms of all cannot be right; one must be right, and all the others wrong, though each having “faith” in their own correct interpretation of Christianity.
This is indeed the way we would examine a truth in the scientific sense- for example if we were looking at a scientific explanation of a certain phenomena or experimental result- only one conclusion would be absolutely correct and the others must therefore be in error.
It is a completely different ball game in Christianity. This is for the following reason: “religion” and “church” as we experience them today (and for most of the last 2000 years) are the result of human interpretation and (mis)understanding and are perhaps inevitable- since they all come from human interpretation.
This falling away is prophesied in the Bible in fact & he will surely judge those who have discerned with the spirit of truth and done his will come the appointed time, if we are to understand scripture.
What I say to you are that there are true believers in all denominations of Christianity, and that is why God has given us freewill to examine & question his truth and become born again.
The plumb line has to be the Bible; which is available to all would be followers to understand and see what God wants and is offering us. Belonging to a particular denomination and believing you are saved because of “membership” is frankly dangerous (though what many including Jehovah’s witnesses and Mormons would have you believe). That is why God has given us a mind with which to question and investigate- to be able to discern for ourselves.
It is why faith forms only part of the armoury of a Christian- we also have the reliability of the Biblical narrative, scientific, archaeological and other scriptural evidences, miracles, lives being changed etc to back it up. Faith does however form the only requirement in the eyes of God for those wishing to be saved.
If God exists at all them I am sure he/she would not condemn a person on the basis of belief or non-belief. Somehow I believe that God wants me to search for Truth. I find no truth at all in faith. You mentioned the Mormons. A brief history of the Mormons. A young man named Joseph Smith, living in America.Round about the 1840’s. He was about 14 then. Confused about religeon. So he had a vision. God told him to start a new religeon. Based on Christianity.Produced a new set of scriptures called ‘The Book of Mormon’ Subtitled ‘the Further Adventures of Jesus’. So he started a new religeon.
To date there are something like 4 million followers of the prophet Joseph Smith. His followers have faith that Joseph Smith was inspired by God.
The bottom line of my earlier comment was that people had so much faith in the Blessed Virgin Mary that many miraculous healings had been attributed to her.
It seems to me that it is ‘Faith’ that counts.
Even though we know that praying to the BVM is a waste of time because we know that the BVM does not actually exist, nor ever did. But those who believe have ‘Faith’.
Just as the Mormons have faith in Joseph Smith, although I do’nt think any miracles have been attributed to him except the strange fact that millions of people have faith in him.Personally, I think he was ‘Deluded’, as are his followers.
You say that the plumb line is the bible. But the bible was written by people like Joseph Smith. Insired by God or ‘Deluded’?
All you need is faith to work it out. Its not really difficult. The Mormons are actually very nice people. I have met a few and been to their church. If I see them in the street I stop and talk. I really cannot believ that God will punish them for having faith in the prophet Joseph Smith or me for not having faith in him. Or Jesus.
Faith.In any Deity. you say all of these differnt branches of christianity are valid and it does not really matter which one you follow just as long as you have ‘Faith’ in Jesus.
What about the other ‘Faiths’?
The thing I notice about most people of faith is that they are actually rather nice people, if just a little deluded. I have no faith in any of the religeons and I’m pretty sure I’m not a bad person either. I’m sure that God will not punish all the nice people of other faiths or even the non-believing nice people. Neither will he reward the believer because nobody knows for sure what is the true faith.
Just be nice. Love thy neighbour as thyself.
God is Love.
“believing you are saved because of “membership” is frankly dangerous”
Correct. As John the Baptist stated, “God could raise up sons of Abraham from [these] stones!” Those who believe they can have some water thrown on them, proclaim themselves “reborn”, and then go about their lives doing whatever they wish are in for a big surprise. There is a dangerous movement in fringe Christianity which teaches that once baptized, a person can rape, pillage, murder, etc without guilt, repentance, or atonement and still enter the Kingdom. Not true. Not even close to the Truth. This is an extremely dangerous false teaching for it teaches that it is ok to pay Him lip service, which our Lord Jesus Christ abhors.
It is by our faith that we are saved through Grace, both being gifts of God. But faith without works is dead. If our faith is dead then we become like seeds sown in dry rocky soil, bearing no fruit. Jesus has stated, “the lukewarm I shall spit from my mouth” He also said, “One who would set his hand to the plow and look back is not worthy of the Kingdom.” If For those, it might be better for them had they never heard His name.
I refer you to my ealier comment about Constantine, the first Holy Roman Emporer. It is possible to commit crimes and then confess your sins to a priest and be ‘forgiven’. He confessed, was converted and promptly ordered the execution of his former friend, Sopater, a Pagan priest who would not forgive him for his sins. Many of the early Christians thought they could commit sins and be forgiven. The Pagans had no way of forgiving crimes. Only God could do that.
Christians of today really should know their history.
It was known as Confession.You could not be a true Christian without the Act of Confession. This was also one of the things Christianity borrowed from the Pagans. Something from their history they would probably like to forget.
You say that with Faith and God anything is possible. But from my understanding of things I do not believe that God has much to do with it. Miracles are performed by Todd Bentley at his meetings. Miracles are performed at Lourdes in France. There is another place in Portugal where miracles happen. There are also places in Ireland where miracles happen. In Ireland there are even statues of the Blessed Virgin Mary that actually weep blood. Some of these statues even sway from side to side. The ‘faithful’ flock to these places in the hope of being cured or witnessing the miracle of someone else being cured. The faithful who flock to see Todd Bentley and those who flock to these other places all have one thing in common. ‘Faith’.
Different beliefs, but they have ‘faith’ in these different beliefs. It does appear that it is a question of faith rather than God. Miracles can happen no matter what you believe in just so long as you believe.
No doubt some christians will say that it is the devil that is performing miracles in some cases. But I don’t believe in the devil either. I have no ‘faith’ that the devil exists any more than that Jesus ever existed. It is all ‘Delusion’.
But somehow having faith in something seems to do the trick. Just choose your Diety. They all work, if your ‘Faith’ is strong enough.
Keep the faith. God is Love.
Why do trinitarians deny the human person of Jesus Christ??
How can you have a genuine man without having a human person (ICor15:21, Phil 2:7, ITim2:5, etc.)?
Why are trinitarians deceptive (or, most, ignorant) about this key issue?
Thanks,
Greg
Its easy to deny the human person of Jesus. He was never human. he was always only a concept, an idea of how man should live his life.
I’m guessing the reason why people deny the trinity is because it was a pre-christian concept. A pagan idea of God.
Before christianity existed there where many very similar concepts, or ideas of God and and how man should live. God Almighty had sent his Son down to earth to teach humans how to be civiilsed. There where a number of different religeous beliefs on the same theme. The ancient pagans believed in ‘Almighty God, his Son, and His Mother’. Thus formeing a Divine Trinity. The Holy Trinity was one of those ideas that early christianity adopted. There where many others.
I once read of a skeptic who visited Lourdes, and was shown a pile of crutches. Unimpressed, he asked of the tour guide: “Where are the prosthetic limbs?” I’m asking you the same question: where are the prosthetic limbs? You point to people who were “miraculously” healed; allow me to point to those who have been prayed for and who died anyway. I’ve known many of them. Recently, here in Tulsa, Oklahoma, a faith healing minister, Billy Joe Daugherty, died of cancer after being prayed for by, I would suppose, millions of people. The inexplicable will of God, hm?
In a population of millions of sick individuals, there will be some cases in which a disease goes into spontaneous remission, and this will be attributed to divine healing. On the other hand, there will be cases in which a person appeared to be on the way to a certain recovery, but inexplicably dies. Where there are a large number of certain phenomena, there will be anomalies, exceptions to the rule.
Show me ONE verified case in which an eye or a limb was regrown, and I will believe in miracles and accept Jesus as my savior. Now don’t think I can be persuaded by you saying, “Well, my cousin Mortimer heard from his buddy Hershel that in Podunk, Alabama, a woman’s left pinkie toe was regrown during a revival in 2003.”
Best of all would be an experiment in which skeptical scientists and magicians (like James Randi) were present as a faith healing minister attempted to convince God to regrow, say, an amputated leg–or even a pinkie toe. God doesn’t do experiments, you say? Hm. Think of the millions of people who would convert on the spot if such a miracle happened. But it won’t. Because miracles don’t happen. Anomalies do.
“Faith is believin’ what you know ain’t so.” –Mark Twain
“Best of all would be an experiment …” This type of exercise would be futile and prove nothing. Why? Because God does not allow Himself to be put to the test. Does the created somehow think they can counsel or test the Creator?
Faith is belief in what you know is Truth. There are no prosthetic limbs at Lourdes because there are few, if any, who have faith even approaching the size of a mustard seed. God created this universe and everything in it. He can certainly regrow a limb, if He wanted. But will He do so? Is there anyone who is worthy of such a miracle? I.e. is there anyone who truly believes, with all of their being, that He will do it?
Not even I have faith the size of a mustard seed, even though I have witnessed the Holy Spirit heal cancers, infirmities, deafness, infections, etc. These things have happened when I have touched people and/or prayed over them. The closest thing I have witnessed to a limb being regrown is a physician, who had one leg shorter than the other since birth and this was causing degeneration of his hip joint. He was healed instantly, his short leg “stretched” to the same length as the other. I did not see it happen but had been praying for him, as were others, at the time he was healed. I have also witnessed people not be healed because they had no faith or were just putting God to the test.
Curiously, what I have experienced from most people, including many who have been healed, is a continued lack of faith, distrust, or outright persecution. This I fail to understand but it must be God’s will that they question the notion that God works through people, like myself. I think He allows this in order to test my own faith and the faith of others. I know and understand, myself, just how difficult it is to have faith – even though God has repeatedly revealed Himself. How much more difficult is it for one who has not seen to believe in Him?
If you have faith, hold onto it and pray for more.
Larry,
All men die. Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. Lazarus eventually died a 2nd time. That does not detract from the first miracle.
Every single crutch in Lourdes represents one person who walks, who could not before.
In this thread I have provided you with scientific evidence, medical documentation and peer reviewed secular published medical journals and doctors reports, documenting healing of blindness, deafness, cancer, MS, all kinds of severe maladies and paralysis. Complete with statistics and full disclosure – including those who were NOT healed. I’ve provided links to numerous detailed reports in the secular media. I have even provided an extensively documented case of an amputated leg that grew back in 1640.
You can read the books, you can read the hands-on intercessory prayer paper from Southern Medical Journal, you can watch the videos.
You have ready access to all the information anyone could ever need to acknowledge the authenticity of miracles.
You chose to believe none of them.
Sir, I do not believe you for a single minute when you say that you will believe if someone shows you an eye or limb was regrown. You will just call that an anomaly too. You can always chalk it up to a few malfunctioning stem cells or whatever. Nobody can stop you from making up your own story and choosing to believe it.
I have thoroughly and adequately done my job. The burden no longer rests on my shoulders. You are fully accountable for all you have been shown.
My word to you is the same as Jesus’ words to the stiff-necked Jews in Luke 10:13:
“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.
Matthew 13:12 “For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.”
I implore you to open your eyes and ears and see what is plainly before you.
Hello,
Thanks for the article, God bless you!
Me personally, I accept the diversity of practice (some more quite, some using rock ‘n roll, some controversial, some conservator), as God Himself create all things diversely. Even Paul said: “Philippians 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will/18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.”
So I’m not against any denomination, if the difference doesn’t controvert the Holy Trinity and the salvation by the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Can I ask? You said:
“The protestant church has amputated #1, #2, #4, #5 and #8.”
What do you mean by ‘protestant’?
I thought that ‘protestant’ started with the reformation, and it doesn’t point a single denomination. Lutheran is in.
So if you say that Lutheran doesn’t believe ‘miracle #4’, I can just say: ‘not true’.
I am Lutheran, in Madagascar (my country), we have only one Lutheran church (the others are very new), and our church has ‘revival’ movement. And personally I have a lot to be told about miracle, but I am Lutheran. My Father, a Pastor, is used by the Holy Spirit to do miracles, but he was not fired. :(
I hope you visit China (actually, I study in China, and what you’ve written about evolution theory helps me very much)
Thank you!
Paul qouted, Phil. 1.15.
Seems to be saying to me, that you can tell lies just as long as it’s in Gods name. ‘ Whether in pretence or in truth ?’.
There is no Truth in pretence. A gospel of Truth does not require lies. Unless it has something to hide. A God of Truth has no need of pretence. There is no truth in pretence. Pretence is trickery. Have you been hoodwinked?
To the moderator.or censor. Any chance of a reply to my comments? In the name of seeking Truth. For there can only be One Truth. The only way to Truth is through the rational mind.
For it is written,’For this cause, God shall send them strong delusions that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned’. 2 Thes 20.11.12.
Which could be understood to mean that ‘faith’ is the pathway to delusion. Faith is believe without Knowledge. Believe without knowledge is known as superstition. Faith, is just another superstition to the rational mind.
The Pathway to Truth is through the Rational Mind.
Before one can know of the Creator one must first Know of Thyself.
These miraculous events, answers to prayer, are all possible, however incredible, by the findings of quantum physicists. The various phenomena are on a scale far larger than the confirming experiments of science, in most cases, but all are quantum phenomena. What does this tell us? Certainly that prayer can and sometimes does bring substantial results explainable by quantum effects. Here then is a wonderful coming together of religious energy and science. Where is Isaac Newton in this? According to historians’ reports, he was insistently religious. As such, how would he have received these reports of miracles? Can’t we assume that quantum explanations would have delighted him, and confirmed his faith? We are living in a time of wonderful revelations. That bleak materialist cosmos, where conscious awareness is an electrochemical accident, or a random event in a strictly impersonal universe, no longer fits the evidence.
What about the fact that it is Faith that really counts.Faith is required. Faith means to believe in something that is not grounded in any facts. The fact that there are sites in different parts of the world dedicated to different dieties, or versions of supposed divinity, where faith healing is said to happen, (miracle cures). Are all these different ‘Faiths’ all part of this quantum theory? If so then it seems to back up my theory that it does not matter what you believe in just so along as you believe.
God is Love. Keep the Faith.
I have to agree. This is one of the most ignored Christian concepts: Everyone is ultimately justified by their own “version” or faith/belief of G*d and everything. I know it’s spelled out in the NT somewhere but I can’t find it. Any help would be appreciated because I refer to this frequently.
Disagree – it does matter what you believe. For instance, some eastern religions teach that it’s necessary to balance good and evil. Jesus taught the opposite, that a tree is evil or it is good but cannot be both. Jesus Christ is correct. One cannot ascend to The Father unless they are without sin – meaning the false idea of balancing good and evil comes from the evil enemy. It’s like mixing half chocolate ice cream with half vanilla and expecting vanilla ice cream but what you get is just chocolate. (No chocolate isn’t evil! :) In the same way, trying to balance good and evil results in, well, just evil.
There is only one way to the Father and it requires acknowledgement of Jesus Christ as the messiah and redeemer. Now, there are those who ask “What about someone who has never heard Jesus’ name?” No, they are not automatically condemned to hell as many people believe. But we are accountable for what we do know.
Chocolate is not evil! Thank God for that. Drinking wine is not evil either. Jesus endorsed it.John 2.10.
Everything that exists has in some way the potential for evil. There is nothing that is wholey good, and there is nothing that is wholey bad. See the history of Christianity for examples of the good and bad that has happened in the name of Jesus.
If it where possible to wiegh the good that Christianity has done agianst the evil that has been done in its name which would tip the scales?
God is spelt God and not G*d. you will not be smited for writing the word God. That seems to me to be just a little bit superstitious.
Yes! God created all physics and quantum mechanics. There are those in the physics community who discuss quantum manifolds, entanglement, and quantum particles that pop in and out of existence – “where they come from and where they go, no-one knows.” Sound familiar? It is not for scientists to discover science but for God to choose to reveal it. That which He does not wish to be revealed will not be, no matter how big, expensive, and technologically advanced the machines of men become. And, if physicists ever do discover the origin of creation of the universe, they will discover what has always been right in front of them – God.
I love the fact that in His immense complexity, God gives man certain simple “keys” which unlock simply AMAZING things!
For example: the Law of Relativity is E=mc² (the equation of mass-energy equivalence) and according to scientists this law governs the entire known universe.
Sounds absurd that one could condense all this vast activity to one tiny little equation -E=mc². Yet, it does.
Similarly, the simple “equation” of repent and be born again, governs the entire SPIRITUAL realm, completely transforming the individual from a base, flesh-loving and self-centred individual- destined to destruction, to a spiritual, God-loving individual, destined to eternal life. Some “laws” do not change.
It may be a materialist cosmos but it is not bleak. It is actualy very exciting. The future looks pretty good to me, just as long as the religeous extremists don’t get in control.
Then it would be bleak. Look at the way the religeous people in power have behaved thru-out history and you will see what I mean. Look at any Theocracy and you will see a blinkered society. That is what I call ‘bleak’.
I accept that bad things happen because of our individual free will. If I choose to murder, it isn’t God’s fault because he has allowed me to exercise my free will, resulting in an event against his will and the will of others. What I can’t wrap my head around is birth. There are many examples throughout the Bible of God “opening” and “closing” wombs (Rachel, for example.) In the case of the creation of a baby, it would seem that God has as much say as the act being a consequence of biology. If this is true, why do so many horrible people get pregnant, fine, no problem, when so many stable couples who would make wonderful parents have “closed” wombs so to speak? I see stories all the time…two parents are addicted to the internet and their child starves to death; a young woman spent the night partying, then in her drunken stupor, knocked her baby into a bucket of vomit and it drowned; a heroin addict who has ravaged her own body can somehow still get pregnant and chooses to abort her baby at six months of pregnancy. The creation of a child seems to me, if I’m looking at the Bible, to be an area where God has control outside of our free will. So to reiterate my question, why do bad people get to be parents when good people are skipped over? This is the one thing I just can’t get my head around and I confess that it has shaken my life-long faith to the core.
Courtney – Wrap your head around this: Jesus said John the Baptist was previously Elija, so it’s safe to acknowledge reincarnation exists. Jesus freed us from the constant cycle of birth and death, but it still exists. If reincarnation exists then, as any reincarnation fan will tell you, the fate of the reincarnated person (good and/or bad) is decided somewhat by their past life. That’s how apparently good folks can have such rotten luck.
Ok, so one of life’s hardest questions has been answered by applying an age-old concept. Nonetheless, when looking at someone’s life we have to dispel any real importance beyond looking for an answer to a painful question. Reincarnation and past life karma are decided by G*d alone.
The slippery slope happens when folks start judging others by their misfortunes, as happens in some cultures. Just because someone has a misfortune, doesn’t mean they “deserve it” because of a past life mistake.
Too many people compare themselves and others to – others. As Jesus explained to Peter and as He spoke of in the parable of the workers in the field who worked a half day but received a full day’s pay – what is it to you if God chooses to use one person in a particular way and reward them however He pleases?
Yes, there is precedent in Scripture for a kind of “reincarnation”. But it does not happen in the manner that most people believe or understand it. It happens in a very different way and is nothing like the reincarnation taught by eastern and pagan religions. There are very few whom God chooses to send back again, such as Elijah. For most – we get one chance to get it right. So, it is incorrect to say that humans live multiple lives. Sorry.
What is ‘free will’?
How can man have free will if he is punished for making the wrong choice? It seems to me to be a case of believe or be damned for all eternity.
Regarding “free will”, read my blog, titled “Born Again”, on http://www.oneholyway.org
“To be born again is to end the separation with the Father, caused by lucifer in the begining, and become sons and daughters of God. …” This is related to the concept of “free will”. It is written, “Do you not know that your life is not your own?”
It is said that the old Gods become the new demons.
Lucifer was a Pagan God. He was the bearer of Light. Meaning knowledge, enlightenment. Which was the opposite of being in the dark, not knowing.
Lucifer was the bearer of knowledge of Self.
He was a good God in the Pagan world. Not considered evil but helpful.
On the rise of Christianity and the edicts of the first Holy Christian Roman Emporer, Constantine, Lucifer lost his place in Heaven and was cast down into Hellfire, to become the Christian Satan.
This could perhaps be the start of religeous fundamentalism raising its ugly head.
Reference ‘Free Will’.
Which means having the ability to make choices. If I am punished for making the wrong choice then I do not have ‘free will’.
Could Jesus’ statement to Nicodemus “Ye must be born again” be a reference to reincarnation?
Peace, brothers and sisters. Miracles have not ceased. To demand a sign is an adultrous (unfaithful) manner of putting God to the test. Yet, there is no wrong in asking for gifts of Grace. Indeed, faith is not believing that God can do a thing – but believing that He will do it.
God is unchanging and not bounded by space and time, as human beings. So, what once was, is now, and will be. I bear witness to the power of God to work miracles. The sick are healed, the lame walk, the deaf hear. I have sought no glory for self but glorify He, who sent me. I have never charged even one penny for passing on such gifts of God – because what God has given must be given freely.
But those who would waste time arguing about who God is, know this: There is only one and, as noted by a previos commentor, Elijah has already demonstrated who the Father is. Jesus Christ demonstrated the only way to the Father is by Christ. If it is true that those who believe though they have not seen are blessed, then I cannot claim to be as blessed as they for I have seen…
Look at this web-site and still say miracles don’t happen anymore. I know of 9 that were raised from the dead. One baby was dead for two days. The child (Kari Holma )in Finland that was killed by a car was raised from the dead. It was predicted 2 years before and the congregation wrote it down.
Here in South Africa thousands were healed with one prayer in Durban. Even people that were in the surrounding area. The blind was made to see.The deaf could hear. Cancer were healed. the crippled and lame were healed. If I remember correctly 24 000 were healed.
Have a look at the web site and decide for yourself. http://www.believethesign.com/intro.htm
I read almost all the pages in “http://www.believethesign.com/intro.htm” as you suggested.
What I saw is ‘someone’ named William Branham, and Jesus was in second plan. So I wonder who is this personality.
I start my research, and at the end: I laugh seeing this: “Branham died in 1965 after his car was struck by a drunk driver. For many days after his death several well known Latter Rain ministers prayed over his body in an attempt to raise Branham from the dead. . .obviously they failed.” (a tragical end for a great so-said: prophet of God, source: http://www.forgottenword.org/branham.html).
Do the research by yourself and find out that he is one of those who will claim that they did several thing with the name of Jesus, but Jesus even doesn’t know them.
For the miracle, it will be a miracle for those who are blessed to see that he is a false prophet.
God bless His.
The Prophet quite often puts God into the background.
Its no good just believing in God. One must also believe in his Prophet. As in the Prophet Muhaamad. You must believe in God and his messenger, Muhaamad.
Many Prophets change, as time goes on to placing themselves in front of God. They must be believed.
All the TV evangelists are like that. they elevate themselves to some position where belief in God is not possible without them.
Hi Toky,
It depends what you are looking for. do research into what Bro. Branham said and done and not what other people say and did. All his sermons since 1948 are available free on the internet.If you find anything he said that does not tie in with scriptures please let me know.
http://www.williambranham.com/ This is the offical site. There are many others to look at.
http://www.believethesign.com/intro.htm Looks at the man and not what he preached. This is for unbelievers to see what God for us in this age.
He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Do not judge others. It is written, do not say to anyone, “Fool, fool!” For these things we are held accountable in the fires of gehenna.
One who has not experienced nor witnessed the heavenly realms will be unprepared to judge the the accounts of those who have. There are small similarities to what is taught in Bible school but the full reality of The Kingdom is not something easily comprehended, nor can it be fully comprehended by humans. When people react adversely to what I have to say, I must continually remind myself that they have no basis for understanding. This does not make me better than anyone else – I just have experiences that make me not fit into this world of men. I “try” as best as I can as human to follow the example of John the Baptist and lower myself to serve others. One who exhalts self serves no-one but self. A prophet who keeps God’s commands, especially the one Command of Love given by Jesus, which sums the ten, might perhaps be a true prophet.
I will say this – I am God’s prophet and messenger. He speaks to me and I have seen Him. I know what it means to say that no man can see His face and live. I would leave this world if He would allow it but, as Apostle Paul lamented, I cannot. He has given me authority to heal and other things so that I might glorify Him who sent me. To know if someone is a false prophet, ask this: Does the person call others to Christ and give all Glory and Honor to Him? If not, then perhaps he is a false prophet. Or, he may be a true prophet who has not yet passed all of the tests nor persevered the (rather intense)trials God puts His prophets through. That God puts His prophets to the test far beyond the norm is something I can personally attest to…
Judge not. The cup by which we measure out to others will be the cup by which God measures out to us…
Gehenna was a rubbish tip outside the city walls. it was where they burned rubbish. The fires where nearly always burning. Probably threw the dead bodies of those criminals they had stoned to death there too, to be burned in the fires that never went out.
Gehenna was a real place where the fires where always burning.
Of other ‘truths’ in the bible.
Most scholars agree that John the Baptist was a real person. Actualy mentioned outside the bible. It is also thought by most scholars that some of the other people mentioned in the bible did not actualy exist.
It is also thought by some people that a day in the bible is longer than twenty four hours. But that is still open to interpretation. Some saying it is metaphor and some saying it is literal.
I think the problem with the Literalists is that once you accept that ‘In the begining etc..’ is a metaphor where do you stop? Adam and Eve where not real, their story is meant to be understood in a different way. And then Cain and Abel. And why did God prefer the Bloody Sacrifice?
Is it all Metaphor, Just parables, to be interpreted and re-interpreted, never finding the true meaning.
Or did it all really happen. Or maybe just some of it.
One thing is for sure. The Bible is a book. Wrote by Man.
I did love eating wafers and drinking wine .Now that I read that in your RELIGION eating that wafer is equal to EATING HIS FLESH and DRINKING WINE in CHURCH is equal to DRINKING HIS BLOOD. Does it not make you doing this make you all EQUAL to CANNIBALS. I will never mix the two together.Religion is like believing in SANTA.OR FAIRY TALES. How can a G-D MAKE SO many mistakes lie diseases,wars in HIS NAME,give birth people like HILTLER,SPARING his LIFE many times.How many wars in HIS
NAME,DISEASES TORNADOES FIRES ,MONSTERS BORN TO DESTROY WHAT [HE] MAKES.There are too many BAD THINGS on this EARTH TO NAME.And a lot people do in HIS NAME. There are so many RELIGIONS that it would take a TELEPHONE BOOK to name then all
the person who is capable of doing miracles (healing…,etc) is a true disciple. If they are indeed true can they also walk on water?